The infamous Reg Failure Possible?

**hitech** · 07-13-2004, 09:21 AM

Originally posted by Butterfingers

Scuba tanks are filled at a slow rate submersed in water for a very good reason.

BTW, even though lot of places still do it, placing a SCUBA tank in water is a bad idea. It does nothing to protect anyone in case of failure and if it's needed for cooling the tank is being filled way to fast. It only increases the chances of water getting inside the tank an causing problems. I know that wasn't the point of your post, but felt a strange need to comment.

FAST FILLING IS A BAD IDEA.

Although I still fill mine too fast, I fill them much slower than I use to.

**SlartyBartFast** · 07-13-2004, 09:44 AM

I don't know how many times I've remarked on the dangers of fast filling and linked to manufacturers sites that gave full details and pictures of the possible outcomes.

If HPA breathing systems are filled by proffesional specifically trained firemen using fill stations that enclose the tank in a half inch of steel and limit the fill rate, why is it paintball markers are filled by ten year olds in seconds with no protection?

Paintball is currently just an accident waiting to happen.

Perhaps a small fill system that regulated fill speed would be a good idea. If it was small, those that do value their life and equipment could at least have one to fill their tanks.

**Creative Mayhem** · 07-13-2004, 10:02 AM

When I worked at the local SCUBA shop, I did everything from filling, servicing and hydroing tanks, both SCUBA and PB, and I agree, as will most, that flash filling is a REALLY BAD IDEA. I used to fill tanks at a higher than normal rate, and thankfully I have never had anything go wrong, I have heard a few stories from past employees about burst disks and one valve going before their time. No one was hurt, but it can happen and happen EXTREMELY fast. AGAIN.. flash filling is a BAD IDEA.

Now, as for filling in water.. this is a grey area. Yes, it doesn't make flash filling safer and can even cause problems with water getting in to the tank, but only if the person doing the filling has no clue hat they are doing. I have filled many tanks in water, never submersing the valve and fill station, theefore negating any chance of getting water inside. I only use water as a added way of increasing the safe filling of tanks. When filled slowly from empty, the tank will build up heat as well, the water will aid in keeping the heat at a lower level, and insuring a good fill closest to the operating pressure on the tank. Any diver will tell you EXACTLY how pissed off they get when they hook up thier regs and find they are missing 500+ psi, and hey 500+ psi can make the difference between seeing that elusive marine life, or exploring just that bit more of a whipwreck.

Sorry for the rant, but I thought I'd give you a different POV, the one of the SCUBA shop worker, not all are like me granted, but I hope this can give you guys a little insight. Oh, sorry for keeping this off topic for another post.

Back to topic at hand...

FLASH FILLING IS A REALLY BAD IDEA!!

**Big'n slo** · 07-13-2004, 10:20 AM

Just reiterating what SlartyBartFast posted.

I'm amazed at the total lack of respect given to HPA systems at local fields, the most cautious setup I've seen was a plastic bucket filled with towels in a sink full of ice. wow...
It scares me to even mention the fact that a 12 year old is operating the valve.

In NJ, even us volunteer firefighters are required to have a 24hr class on SCBA filling. Every year.
(We also have to have a class for directing traffic

but thats a different rant)

Something along the lines of what fire companies use would be nice to see at the fields
and I'm sure we'll see them soon.

**SlartyBartFast** · 07-13-2004, 10:29 AM

Originally posted by Big'n slo

Something along the lines of what fire companies use would be nice to see at the fields and I'm sure we'll see them soon.

Whenever the insurance companies finally put two and two together is my guess.

I suppose paintball is just very small statistically and until recently avoided problems with pressurised systems.

I'm sure that after the CO2 tank caused deaths there will be a reworkingof the insurance policies. HPA filling equipment might not be looked at until there's an unfortunate incident.

Mind you, the fields are taking on a lot of liability at the moment. They'll be responsible for any incident. Because even if the insurance or paintball community doesn't require strict procedure, the DOT and HPA industry do. Ignorance isn't a defense in court.

**barberjohn** · 07-13-2004, 10:38 AM

well, you can also think of it another way. SCUBA tanks are filled so that they can provide pressurized air right to a human's mouth, and paintball tanks are filled to provide pressurized air to a strong aluminum regulator which feeds into an all aluminum or other strong metal gun. the risk for flash filling a SCUBA tank comes with alot more liability, where if something goes wrong with a paintball tank, it will feed into a gun which usually vents the excess pressure. a person's mouth cannot do that, unless you are like this guy

. fast filling of high pressure tanks has been going on for several years now, and the only real damage has been done to people's guns. i believe since co2 tanks are in much wider use, and have actually killed 2 people in the last year, we should be paying closer attention to those. thats my $.02. please dont

me.

edit-- SlartyBart beat me.

**Hexis** · 07-13-2004, 11:05 AM

The fact that the air is nor for breating does nothing to mitigate the risk of explosion or stress on the tank. After all a SCUBA tank must be regulated to a breathable pressure. You try to breathe 3000 psi air.

**TDonovan** · 07-13-2004, 11:17 AM

My field has those push button setups... Sshould I just fill it like 1000psi at a time, give it a little bbreak, then go back at it?

Sorry for any typos, i've got a broken thumb and am icing it reght now.

**TheTramp** · 07-13-2004, 12:26 PM

Originally posted by Hexis

The fact that the air is nor for breating does nothing to mitigate the risk of explosion or stress on the tank. After all a SCUBA tank must be regulated to a breathable pressure. You try to breathe 3000 psi air.

Exactly. The fact that SCUBA tanks are used to provide breathable air makes no difference. In fact, there is no on-tank regulator to fail durring a fill with a SCUBA tank. SCUBA tanks just have a J or K valve that outputs at whatever pressure the tank happens to have in it.

I'm not saying it's safe to flash fill SCUBA tanks but the danger is of a relativly different sort.

**abunkerer** · 07-13-2004, 01:25 PM

Is flash filling different from the "hook up and push the button" type of hp fills?

I have to flinch every time I fill my tank because I have blown so many fill connector orings and been hit by the hoses, and shot with the orings..

**Never hook up and fill your tank unless the hose is tied down, the metal connector on the end of the hose took a nice chunk off my gun when an oring popped and the hose went out of control, could have been worse.

**Butterfingers** · 07-13-2004, 01:36 PM

that would be a flash fill...

**Blazestorm** · 07-13-2004, 01:54 PM

Actually you're supposed to hold the whip incase of something like that.

The worst I've had would be blown fill nipple o-rings (Due to flash-fills) and blown macrolines (Due to adjustable tanks set way too high)

Everytime I get a tank filled I always tell them to do it slowly... they don't do it as slow as "safe" slow, but it's much faster then some guys I've seen do it. They literally opened the valve fully and then closed it. Took about 2 seconds to fill a tank, which resulted in the blown fill-nipple o-ring

**Muzikman** · 07-13-2004, 02:04 PM

Originally posted by Butterfingers

Moral of the story.... there should be regulations on the speed filling of tanks. Scuba tanks are filled at a slow rate submersed in water for a very good reason. To prevent scuba bombs. Hopefully a paintball tank bomb wont be necessary for the industry to open its eyes.

I agree 100% with this statement. It seems the SCUBA crowd understands the dangers of 3000-4500psi tanks. If the paintball community did, they wouldn't throw their guns, fill out of date tanks, or do flash fills.

Good thing it was on a Mag that could handle 3000psi. If that puppy was on anything else I am sure bad things would have happened.

If ya need, I have a few AA reg seats here...want me to send ya one?

**rpm07** · 07-13-2004, 02:04 PM

As for the reg seat I have a 9 year old Air America reg and I am able to use the same reg seat that goes into a AGD valve I dont know if yours if different then mine but it mite work

The infamous Reg Failure Possible?

The infamous Reg Failure Possible?

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