05 Cocker Pics...close ups

[NoLifeLeft]

I personally don't like the looks of the new cocker. However, to be fair instead of comparing it to the 04 vf cocker compare it to what it will compete against in its price class. The Spyder E99 Avant? The Pirahna Eforce EXT? Hell the Tippy 98 Custom is about $140. Compared to those it may be a worthy product. We'll see.

[PBX Ronin 23]

Lord almighty...

This was never meant for experienced people to buy.

Look at it this way. The LARGEST market segment of the paintball industry is new players. That garners about 60% of the share, if I remember my figures from last year correctly. Who owns that market? Kingman, PMI, Tippmann, etc. wOrr has virtually no part of that huge entry level market, esentially because autocockers are too complicated for most newbies, and too expensive.

WGP has now provided a lower priced model, albeit without some of the upgradeablility of the VF series, but also without as much chance of something being screwed up by an unknowing n00b who doesn't know what they are doing.

Look at it like this, once a n00b buys this...WGP is hoping they enjoy it, and because it can't be upped as well as a VF, to sell it off or keep it and buy a VF to upgrade.

In essence, this is a fantastic way to both bring the autococker to new players for less cost and less fear of difficult maintainence, as well as cut into that huge market that is controlled by Kingman, Tippmann, PMI, etc.

The Karni will stay, there is a new black magic in the works, the 05 Vertical line will be out soon....there's nothing this line does except expand WGP into the only segment of the market that they don't have share in currently.

If you don't like them, don't buy them. But I know already from working at the shop and from talking to people, these are highly anticipated and are going to be a very hot commodity among young/new players.

And of course, don't knock em until you try em.

Agreed!

[RRfireblade]

So far, they seem to be pretty nice shooting markers. They're factory timed and preset. They are not meant to be upgraded and for who they were meant for, they don't need to and shouldn't be 'messed' with anyway.I do find it quite interesting that everyone either : 1) trashes cockers for needing to be 'tuned' all the time (Not true) or 2) Now complains that there's no longer anything to 'Tune'. Make up your minds, you can't have it both ways.

As for the 3 way and such. The only parts capabable of failing are servicable. Basically comes down to a few o-rings. They also have a new valve designed specifically to deal with CO2 making them even more user freindly and accessable to newer players looking for something better than the average blowback.

The build quality seems to be quite good and the finish is more than acceptable.They do look much bettter in person, IMO.

Ultimately it looks like a very good business move for WGP and I think they will do very well with them.

And as some have stated,these will have no impact on the SS,Karni and VF so don't sweat it.

[zeroack]

I'll try..

I'll try and get them out this weekend and shoot them. I think I can be fair in reviewing them as I've owned a SystemX base and now own a Chipley SV. I've seen both ends of the market. The two 05's I have are both sprung very oddly I've never heard that sort of sound come out of a cocker before. They both also differ in how they were timed. One has the back block with no spacing at all, the other has more room then I'd like if I'd timed it. More pics and a review on Monday...

Zero

[FallNAngel]

There is no way in Hades that I was firing as fast as that the Karni was shooting. I've pulled 19 cps on an Emag with 3.2--that's the extent of my ability. I was definately exceeding that with the Karni. I know I was up over 25, I had to be. I'm sure that some of the shots were not caused by be pulling the trigger.

Two questions then:

A) Did you sound graph it... any actual *proof* ? As you said "I had to be", I have a feeling the answer is no
B) How high was the bounce filter?

[Target Practice]

Two questions then:

A) Did you sound graph it... any actual *proof* ? As you said "I had to be", I have a feeling the answer is no
B) How high was the bounce filter?

A) I was standing with the guy that wrote 4.0 (Miscue). He knows what he's talking about, and in his (what I consder expert) opinion, it was ramping like a bad mother-- Shut your mouth! I'm talkin' 'bout rampin'.

B) The debounce setting is a moot point. If it ramps, at ANY debounce setting, it is cheater software.

'Course, no one is going to NOT allow them in tourney play, because who's gonna say "No" to WGP?

[Enos Shenk]

I had been waiting for pics of that 3-way.

I still say it would take a sufficiently talented person all of an hour to retrofit a 3-oring core and a chopped timing rod on there.

I might pick one up just to fool around with it and see how far it can be modified.

[spasticsquirrel]

I knew it from the moment K2 bought wgp, they are making cheap wal mart guns.

[FallNAngel]

A) I was standing with the guy that wrote 4.0 (Miscue). He knows what he's talking about, and in his (what I consder expert) opinion, it was ramping like a bad mother-- Shut your mouth! I'm talkin' 'bout rampin'.

I'm not doubting Miscue's coding ability. I doubt just about anyone's ability to tell how fast any marker is shooting without a proper sound graph. Also, please don't tell me to shut my mouth, my statements are just as valid as yours.

B) The debounce setting is a moot point. If it ramps, at ANY debounce setting, it is cheater software.

Apparently you're missing my point. I'm trying to say it was more likely that it was bounce than ramping.

[PaintballSmurf13]

Umm... where are the barbs? Cheap is the whole point... mass production = cheap, cheap=grab newbs, newbs like the gun and buy more expensive cockers... its all money and marketing... i think it's cool, I would rather buy one of those than a spyder or something...
-Ryan

[jewie27]

Automags.org?

[Mosfet]

Automags.org?

nawww....
I'd still rather get the '05 cocker than a spyder or an automags.org...
:P

[Target Practice]

. Also, please don't tell me to shut my mouth, my statements are just as valid as yours.

Wow, it looks like some one missed the train to Humorville. Oh well, that was a Shaft reference, but I shouldn't have expected you to know that. My fault entirely.

[tsc]

I was standing next to Miscue, Ed, and TP at the booth.

Tell me, when a marker clacks off a few shots, then lets loose a steady stream, no burps or pauses, for two seconds, do you have some doubt that it's the fingers on the trigger? I sure do.

I'd venture to say that I know TP pretty well, and I know that he can't pull that fast. It's as simple as that. Even on my scarily fast emag, he can't do it.

I can understand doubting one person's opinion. But four? All experienced players, one who's written the software for an electro marker, and who KNOWS when a trigger is doing something it's not supposed to? That's quite the suspension of judgement, almost to a fault.

I can see erring on the side of the companies producing these boards/markers-- One expects a company to be forthright with their claims of their marker's abilities. However, it's come to the point where one cannot truly expect that; to think that paintball is immune to lying is naive at best-- and even the best tricksters get too cocky, and get a little lax in hiding thier trespasses.

[Wc Keep]

TP im not trying to discredit you, but ive heard before that because of the way the cocker is, it is physically impossible for a normal cocker to cycle over 19 bps. really 25 bps is outrageous. can you please get us a sound clip of this?