Thoughts on Cheating?

[matt-o]

Yes I know, I bonus ball too. I was making a point though cause a guy said earlier that if someone wiped when he hit them that he would bonus ball them, but if he gets so angry at those who brake the rules then why is he braking rules by bonus balling. I know this is not a rule at all fields, but it is at some.

the thing is that b-ballin dosnt improve your game, it kinda hurts your chances to do it if you think about it, its just the only real way i can think of to do more than just beat someone when they do something that lowers the level of the game (or screwing with people, if your evil)

also i think that when paintball gets onto tv people wont wipe as much in the pro ranks, cause its not like they can deny it when its on tvs everywhere, maybe the sponsors will man up and say that they dont want teams that cheat crapping on their name, after all, the high ranks are all about sponsorships.

and WOW i just looked at that site and the chips are 400$, add to that the paint cost, and is it really worth it to pay that much, just so you can beat honest people?

[FallNAngel]

If the powers that be want to allow full-auto, ramping, bounce, etc on gun legally, that's fine. I'll play with or without it depending on how I feel at the time. If the rules are semi only and you're not playing semi-only, then you're cheating... simple as that. My point is, that the rules could be modified to allow it and the game would otherwise still have the same point... to eliminate the other players.

Wiping on the other hand is something completely different. Wiping a hit completely destroys the game. What's the point of playing if you have to wipe to win? Forget limited paint games, etc. What they need to do is crack down on wiping and playing on. If you're noticably playing on (say you go to bunker someone, get shot on the way there and you complete the run anyway) you and 2 teammates are out. If you're caught wiping, your team team forfeits that game, if it happens again in that tourney, your team is disqualified. Video footage will of players wiping / playing on should later be brought up and looked at and the situation reevaluated.

The reason so many people do it is because it's worth it. If they get caught wiping, the penalties for doing so are light. Make the penalty for wiping so massively horrid that they won't even think about it.

[hAppy]

The reason so many people do it is because it's worth it. If they get caught wiping, the penalties for doing so are light. Make the penalty for wiping so massively horrid that they won't even think about it.

Like lynching!

But I do agree with what you say.

[matt-o]

good idea! lets lynch the cheaters!
kidding of course

but yeah the penalties should be so rediculous and harsh that after they are in place we have threads like this complaining about them and saying that they are overkill. but they wouldnt be at all you see

at least for wiping, limit the paint to reduce overshooting/ramping/b-balling, plus it would make the game that much more complex, and therefore better IMO

[SlartyBartFast]

The topic that will never die. The same dishonourable low lifes defending and justifying their need to cheat.

There's only one explaination/excuse for bending/breaking the rules:

"I'm a loser. I have no skill. I'm a dishonest piece of crap."

All those defending or justifying cheating, repeat the above out loud as many times as it takes for you to understand.

Want to stop cheating? Take a stand and start with yourself. Instead of being low-lifes and justifying your regretable behaviour, how about offering some solutions.

Tired of losing to cheaters, start demanding that refs do their jobs. Attend, support, and promote events based on thier organisation and professionalism instead of the prize package.

As spectators, call out the cheaters.

[wolfwood_is_here]

Ok, if you don't play by any rules, you got nothing to say about people b-balling. That does not make it right, but you have no place saying anything about others when you are the reason in the first place. Cheaters have a double standard, where the rules don't apply to them, but everyone else, so everyone else has to follow the rules, but they do not have to. And if somene calls them on it they just find some way to insult them and attempt to make themselves better.

I have no need to cheat because it makes games go faster. How can I learn if a certain tactic is good or not if I can't start over again? If what you were planning didn't go well, and you get marked, go out and while the game finishes refine your tactics and rest up for the next game, which is usually not more than a couple minutes away. I find that games where everybody plays fair actually go faster, which means more games and more attempts to find that perfect formation or whatever.

On the note of content, I apologize for my misgivings, but we still have to band together and know that the more we fight amongst ourselves, the worse it looks to people outside the sport who have an even smaller understanding. So, what does that mean? People will always cheat if they think it will help them, it is an easy out. I regret the one time I have ever wiped during a recball game, and I had called myself out a little bit afterwards because I felt so bad and realized that winning had meant that I had to compromise what I wanted.

So, until people realize that cheating is an easy out, and that it is better to deal with the struggle, they will cheat.

It is the triumph over struggle that makes us stronger.

[Tyger]

Until cheating is no longer rewarded, players will cheat.

Until the people that play are removed from the rulemaking process, cheating will be encouraged and rewarded.

And until the players are removed from the referee pool, cheaters will ref for cheaters.

-Tyger

[LaW]

Until cheating is no longer rewarded, players will cheat.

Until the people that play are removed from the rulemaking process, cheating will be encouraged and rewarded.

And until the players are removed from the referee pool, cheaters will ref for cheaters.

-Tyger

Cheating = one reason I stopped playing tourney ball years ago

Amen bro!

[hitech]

The reason so many people do it is because it's worth it. If they get caught wiping, the penalties for doing so are light. Make the penalty for wiping so massively horrid that they won't even think about it.

I've played in tournaments like that. The problem with a penalty like that is the refs will NEVER call it. It's to big and it's very hard to find a ref that will through a team out of a tounrament. Because that is what a massive penality does.

[FallNAngel]

I've played in tournaments like that. The problem with a penalty like that is the refs will NEVER call it. It's to big and it's very hard to find a ref that will through a team out of a tounrament. Because that is what a massive penality does.

So what's so bad / wrong about making wiping a massive offense?!

[Toxic Dave]

You want an example of the "incredibly harsh penalties won't be enforced" concept. Last year we were reffing a college tournament at a local field, which I do any chance I get because the teams play very fair for the most part and are easy to deal with. In conversation with the Capt. of one of the military acadamies he assured me that no one would cheat on thier team, because if they were penalised they would be kicked out of school for for violating their honor code, and he was very serious about it.

Game time comes around, and a guy on their team gets hit and plays on..nothing huge, he spun on a guy that was bunkering him, happens all the time and it should have been called a 1 for 1. The ref in the area asked me to verify the call and I turned him down, they were losing the game anyway, and nothing points-wise was affected. No harm at all.

Here's a fact I am not going to make a call that is going to have a senior in one of the finest learning institutions on earth be expelled because he spun on a dude who bunkered him out of sheer reaction, he wasn't malicious at all in his intent. You can call me a cheater or a bad person, but I'm not making that call.

The solution to the problem is standardised rules in every league/ event, that were enforced in an even manner for each event. A crew of professional refs is not financially viable for any of the major series at this point, and even then their abilities are not always up to snuff. Reffing sucks to do, no matter how much it pays within reason.

dave

[paullus99]

I had a very interesting discussion this weekend with a real old school tourney player (from the mid-80's till today). He had just decided to really cut back on his tourney play & actually start playing scenarios after playing in his first just recently.

What he said boiled down to this - "After a while, I realized that I HATED tournament players - hated the other team, my team, all the BS that goes along with it. Back in the old days, teams would set up camp, talk to one another, swap stories & have a good time. All of that has changed & its just not fun anymore - its turned into a business, where winning and the money are the only reasons these guys come out anymore."

He said it as good as anyone could - when it stops being about the game & only about getting that last win, no matter what, what point is there left in playing??????

I happy to say that this old-school baller has found a new home in the scenario world & he's having a blast everytime he walks on to the field.

[hitech]

So what's so bad / wrong about making wiping a massive offense?!

Because a rule that is never enforced is worthless.

[Cryer]

I hate paintball

[FallNAngel]

Because a rule that is never enforced is worthless.

So, then perhaps the refs should start enforcing it...