Originally posted by MindJob
a eye will prevent the gun from firing
while lvl x fires and hits the ball which could still cause a chop
better to not have it fire then chance a break.
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eyes are always good to have even with lvlX
a eye will prevent the gun from firing
while lvl x fires and hits the ball which could still cause a chop
better to not have it fire then chance a break."The Few Who Do Are The Envy Of The Many Who Only Stand And Watch"
Alway Remember *343*
Si vis pacem, para bellum -
In My opinion if the eyes work even only partially, I'd much rather have them then not.
Break beam is definately the best way to go cause of 100% chance of ball detection versus reflective. But reflective is definately much better than no eyes at all.
I'd even take a COPS/Sensi system over any marker without eyes.Comment
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It's actually just simple division.... x/y (shots/ci) = Shots per Ci. 900/45 = 20 shots per ci from a full 45/45. If you really wanted to be technical you could determine the volume of air that's released durring a given shot and use the ideal gas law to determine the new volume and pressure in the tank, or simply take the integral of the ideal gas formula between full psi and "chuff" psi. Or something like that lol P1V1 = P2V2, PV=nRT, I dunno, take your pick and crank some math!Originally posted by gc82000
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Not true, in the past 2 times ive played guess which guns eyes stopped working? thats right, both of the kids DM4s on our teams eyes stopped reading paint alltogether.Break beam is definately the best way to go cause of 100% chance of ball detection versus reflectiveComment
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I started off at U.C. Davis as an Aerospace Engineer, so back then I'd have taken the technical method of approach...
But I graduated there as a Sociology of Law major, so I'll take the x/y :P
Vash.
Thats 100% if the eyes are functioning properly.
Were their eyes dirty? Did they have pinched wires? Connections good? How do you know it wasn't some sort of malfunction inherent with what they did. Two markers of the same model do not represent all models.
Both markers being DM4's I'd give the guess that it was a marker malfunction to do with that model, and/or user error.
As for your refuting that break beam is not better than reflective, theres this argument.
Ignoring hardware malfunctions such as pinched wires, and faulty software logic, There is no way that a ball will not be detected by break beam eyes unless the ball were transparent which is never the case.
Given the same situation for Reflective, there is a greater chance that the reflective will mis-read certain colors of paint. Check out the eblade readings or the Halo for this.
Given these factors, I'd take break beam any day over reflective.
In all the times I've played I've never seen anyones DM4's eyes fail on them.Comment
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I am just wondering why is that an ironic statement. When your eyes are equipped with eyes, why wouldn't you use them? Seems perfectly logical to me.Originally posted by FallNAngel
Mindjob: read my first reply, i said the same thing.
Fragtek: I would have to disagree the vision eyes are good, just not the best.
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I am here to give you the best unbiased opinion on the shocker I can. I don't dislike smart parts but I don't love them. I have owned almost every other type of highend on the market.
Lets start with the basic's.
Price: 825 with vision. Very very good price for what you are getting. Most guns similar to the shocker are going to be in the 900-1000 dollar range. Not many guns come to mind in that range besides Dye Matrixes.
Overall looks: It is up to you whether you like it or not. It has simple looks that many find appealing. Very easy to clean the body off.
Trigger: The trigger on shockers has some pluses and negatives. First off, it is a pretty narrow trigger. Not the fattest on the market. You can upgrade to the Nasty X trigger if you arent satisfied. My biggest pet-peeve with this trigger is the set screws they used. They used .50 metric screws. Very very small screws, and the only metric screws on the whole gun. Didn't make a lot of sense to me. Adjusting the pull tension on it, requires you to completely remove the circuit board which can be a hassle sometimes, but it's not bad. Overall, you can make the pull on the gun very very nice.
Electronics: The electronic part of the gun is alittle sketchy. Smart parts used pretty weak ribbon cables. The actual thought of electronics is very good. They fit alot of stuff into a pretty small area. Which is good and bad. Good-Cuts down on the size of gun, Bad-easy to break stuff and jam stuff in. The on off switch is pretty pimp, it is clear and the led light on the gun is in the switch. The gun uses two little buttons to adjust the ROF and dwell settings. The stock shocker board is plenty fast for most people. A cheaper solution if you want a new one with debounce settings and all that fancy stuff is get the new dynasty tadao board, it is 130 bucks. If you arent content with the board or eyes, you can get the predator 2 installed. The vision in my opinion is great. Worked fine for me. Hell, I used a revvy 50% of the time on my dynasty shocker and never broke a ball.
Inline Maxflo reg-My biggest complaint, I wish they would of added a spot for a guage, but I'll live. You can always buy a new VA from NDZ with a guage spot. Otherwise the reg has pretty good consistency, +/- 5 is what I was getting. Definitely not lacking but not exceeding expectations.
Overall Cleaning etc: Shocker is a very simple gun, unscrew the back cap, and push the other internals out the front of the gun. Similar to a matrix. Clean all the orings off, regrease them with dow33(only) and you are good. Carry a spare oring kit around, just incase one blows, never know with spool valve guns. If you take care of the gun and regulator by lubing them a lot, you will never have a problem.
Stock barrel: 14in Matching All American. Not much more you can ask for in a stock barrel(unless its an ultralite
. Definitely doesn't need replacing.
I'm not going to give it a final rating because that would just be stupid. Honestly, the Shocker and Dye matrix are the best guns in the 850-700 range.
www.TeamNever.comComment
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Everyone's entitled to an opinion :)Originally posted by evan123
FragTek Customs - Cyborg Owners Group
AO Feedback - PBN Feedback
"AGD is good because 2/3 of their name is AGG :)" - DiRtY HiPpYComment
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i usually dont bother because they made it so you have to push the button again after it boots up to turn on vision.Originally posted by FallNAngel
and to all the other stuff in your post: instead of making stupid smart a$$ comments because you dont like SP, why dont you do some research on the product before you start crying
. this guy is asking whether or not this is a decent product, not whether or not you can make stupid immature posts.
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What a joke, its made by SP so it must suck right
First off, FSDO seems to be an issue... if it sets for more than like five minutes - the first ball out will literally roll out of my barrel. Guess what, it has not impact on my style play so I dont care - though Im told it may be a lack of lube.
As for "its $800 it should be ready to go out of the box". The precious e-mag is how much.. and its not even LEGAL out of the box with hybrid mode. I like e-mags, I owned one for quite awhile, I still tech them but let's not go there.
Reflective eyes. The most reliable eye I have ever seen is a reflective eye. I watched a marker equipped with one empty a hopper at high rates of fire when no other marker was doing it that day. That included e-blades, timmies, my LX mag, shockers, Imps, and various other guns. Of course it was the industrial eye on a Sandridge F5 so...
The Shocker, the E-mag, and many many otehr guns are very functional markers, it all comes down to a matter of taste."Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, nothing is going to get better. Its not" - Dr SuessComment
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Eye for and Eye
OK, I will give my .02 cents here.
The difference between the x-mag and shocker eye is this THE X-MAG EYE IS LOCATED IN THE BOTTOM OF THE BREACH.(where is should be.....think about it) Thats why its better. As far as I can tell it uses the same exact eye (part wise)
As far as software/logic the X-mag is not bad, I have done lots of testing with it. 15-20bps
Surprisingly everyone I know who has an X-mag does NOT use there eye. I will not play with out it turned on my emag. I as well think it is silly not to use it.
The X-mag eye is kind of a pain to set up, and will NOT work correctly with black paint!!. Period!!
Sorry I can't give you more in site on the 03shocker. A friend of mine had one and it never worked correctly, needless to say he sold it.
HillsNVE-mag
Certified Airgun Tech.
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ok, its been a couple weeks, but thats a couple weeks I've had my new '04 Shocker now, and have fiddled with it. I have yet to actually play with it, so I can't say much for the eyes other than I dislike the logic.
For the eye logic part, I'll use a little programming talk. "Setting a bit" This is setting a flag or state.
The eye logic works by permanently setting a ready to shoot bit, and leaving it ready until the trigger is pulled, making it reset. The problem is that only firing resets the bit, not removing the ball.
On other markers the bit is set when a ball is in the breach, and reset when the ball is removed.
That means the board will only fire if a ball is in the breach.
On the Shocker if a ball falls in its sets the bit and is ready to fire. if the ball bounces halfway up the breach, it'll still fire. BOOO!
Now for the other stuff.
My price: $660 Shipped for a used '04 witth HE bolt, Clamping Rise, CP Reg (No Max Flow here) and Wave trigger
Weight: very light (untill you throw the halo on there :P )
FSDO: dont know yet, but i hear its a lube issue mostly on newer ones.
Chopping: Not sure yet, but this thing is basically a direct rip off of the Matrix. works like one, sounds like one, and you can stick your finger in the breach and fire just like one.
my impression: If you can get a used one with ups for around $660 like I did, then go for it!Comment
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Eh, after playing with one for a couple of practices its nothing special. The trigger feels weird, the vision could be better, just the over all feel of it seemed cheap. I mean for $800 you could get a used Intimidator which is faster, better ACE and very air efficient.Comment
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[QUOTE=BlackWeenie]i usually dont bother because they made it so you have to push the button again after it boots up to turn on vision.
QUOTE]
On the rebound/nerve super Shocker board they fixed this idiotic idea. It boots into Vision mode."Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, nothing is going to get better. Its not" - Dr SuessComment
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shoots faster or cycles faster? or do you have the magical 35bps Halo?Originally posted by MaChu
Although I agree on the better ACE logic.
For $800 you can also get a used freestyle which I would take any day over a timmy or a shocker, but why stop there? For $1000 you can get an Angel. but why stop there? For $1200 you can get a used '04 timmy. but why stop there?
The "for $140 more" argument is one of those it just keeps adding up arguments. Some people have to set a limit and can't go any higher.
For $660 the Shocker with ups I got was a great deal.
For $800 a used timmy is a good deal if its got ups.
For $1000 .....
Gotta compare many different factors. Price, performance, personal preference for size, etc, etc.
Me personally I'd go Freestyle any day over the Timmy, and went with the Shocker over a used GZ/classic timmies because I had a timmy and thought it was too big. Not my bag, baby. Awesome marker, but it just wasn't me..... although if I had the cash I'd definately go Russian Legion!
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