Its been hard, but im gettin out of the mag family

[tyrion2323]

Whatever guys. The Omen is a great marker, but if you all want to bash on it, that's your deal.

Just remember how you feel when people call mags "blenders."

[Z-man]

Edited: Not part of the discussion.

[Teamslayer76]

Holy downgrade batman!

If it were me the whole thinking process would be reversed BUT... to each their own

:rofl: PMI AGD

[Z-man]

Edited: I actually liked that post. Thought it had sme good points.

[tyrion2323]

Zack, since you're going to continue to tote your mocking tone then I'm not going to even try to have any discussion. I'll delete my posts and just forget about this stupid thread. My original post was in defense of the Omen, which I still claim is a great marker.

In regards to my indictment of the AO Cult, I also stand by it. Again, I've spent a lot of time on these boards and watched many people get berated for owning cockers, matrixes and other. Not only that, but AOers seem to have a fierce hatred for the Omen, though most who claim to dislike it have only tried it once at most. If that's not BLIND, then I'm unsure of what you believe to be an "informed decision." Remember, every marker can have a bad day. I've owned three mags, all of which have given me many problems... So when people say that "Omens chop like crazy" and the like, it's really like equating Mags to "Blenders," which we all know is a myth.

I would, in your place, reconsider some of your statements about both the Omen and myself. Equating me to a PBNer is not only low, but it's an empty statement. Many PBNers are good guys. In fact, some AOers here are Mods over there. Unless you're willing to brand every PBNer as the same, it'd be wise of you to not make general statements like that. Never have I called anything "gay," nor called anyone a "***got," though I have seen many an AOer do so.

So, with that, I rescind all prior flames.

Good night.

[Carbon]

In regards to my indictment of the AO Cult, I also stand by it. Again, I've spent a lot of time on these boards and watched many people get berated for owning cockers, matrixes and other. Not only that, but AOers seem to have a fierce hatred for the Omen, though most who claim to dislike it have only tried it once at most. If that's not BLIND, then I'm unsure of what you believe to be an "informed decision." Remember, every marker can have a bad day. I've owned three mags, all of which have given me many problems... So when people say that "Omens chop like crazy" and the like, it's really like equating Mags to "Blenders," which we all know is a myth.

although this might be true in regard to AO. I always assumed that the berating is in fun harmless buddy buddy way. Generally the overal tone on AO is that of "go with what you like"

[xXHavokXx]

Funny, I don't own a mag but never felt any discrimination when I talk up angels. I think in every thread I post in I give WDP my love.



Fly or Die ( heh totally just saw that ad.)
Chris.

[Z-man]

Zack, since you're going to continue to tote your mocking tone then I'm not going to even try to have any discussion.

I am sorry to have you leave without fully resolving the issue. As it stands I sort of have the impression that your disenchanted with AO's shortcomings (which it most certainly has) and that you don't think much of my presence here on AO. That is your business and nothing more needs to be said about that.

But, what I don't like is when spurious claims are thrown about like proven facts.

You've seen it, I've seen it. On AO, on PBN, AIR, BE, anywhere. This is why there are generalizations made about each forum BECAUSE there is a general trend that seems to reoccur. AO likes Mags (duh). PBN is known to be where the bulk of the trendy, easily dazzled children of the paintball world go to tell everyone how great their is. Of course not everyone is like that.

There was a great thread on the Matrix section that I am kicking myself for not saving where some guy had taken the time to test out every bolt kit and configuration for a Tirx and had a nice listing of the shots per tank parts used, everything. Pure gold! So does that mean that the generalization is all wrong? No I don't think so.

It just means that there are people productively contributing to the forum for the benefit of others. Bravo! I wont go there very often but they are helping raise the bar. If I go there I will contribute to the forum and not start posting about how awful the ignorant children of PBN all are because.... what does it do? Just like you are not going to pull a 180 on this discussion, neither will the people who make that generalization of PBN a reality.

You feel that the "Pro AGD products" aura is so pervasive here on AO that any other marker is immediately going to be bashed and railed on because its not a AGD marker. I disagree. I believe it happens and with a little searching could pull up some results. But I also believe that I can pull up far more examples that offer constructive suggestions.

Take this thread,

I would, in your place, reconsider some of your statements about both the Omen and myself.

I know nothing about this "Omen" and have (until now not even discussed it.

Never have I called anything "gay," nor called anyone a "***got," though I have seen many an AOer do so.

Why are we going here? I haven't confronted you on anything but your comments toward AO and myself.

So, with that, I rescind all prior flames.

Thank you. I would like to think that much of what you said was not meant and simply said on the spur of the moment. I would rather have a friend (or at least ambiguous) here than an enemy.

Any further comments on my part (if you would like to discuss this further) will be confined to PM's as I can see that this thread has been hijacked.

[Carbon]

So yeah, good luck with your omen kid!

[tyrion2323]

What I said about the "Gay" comments is my experience with PBN. A lot of times if people present a unique idea, or perhaps a silly question, they are branded as gay. Just check the Dynasty boards for further proof.

That's what I was getting at there.

[misenhei]

Everyone preaching to the effect of "if it feels good, do it," i salute you. Along those same lines, you can't come into this house and say something else is better and not expect resistance. We're all shoot mags because that's what feels right. In the arena of personal preference, you can't call supporting your decisions blind faith.

I personally LOVE Evil's products, so you can imagine how excited I was when the Omen came out. The first release, even after all the delays, were terrible. Of the 8 I have personal experience with, all had to be sent back to the manufactuer. Every single one. I hear all the problems have been fixed with the new run, but that first impression has already been made.

On the affordability end there are a lot of electros with the same speed, considerably lower reciprocating weight, and no moment arm created by the offset feed.

[White_Noise]

Sure, 'mags are nice markers, but they're not flawless, nor are they the "best" out there anymore. My chart was simply to show that for less money you can get a faster marker with a comprehensive warranty plan. This can proven simply by looking at the rates that other markers are selling compared to the automag.

1. Is a comprehensie warranty needed? Companys that make cheap products need to have warranties so that they can convince people to buy their product. all a warranty does is make you feel good inside about making your purchase. In all my 4 years of using mags, only one time have i absolutely needed to have an AGD tech work on one of my markers. Mags are quite possibly the simplest marker on the market, and requires very little maintainance to keep them working.

2. Flaws? i can tell you one thing, the automag has very few, if any flaws compared to other markers. mags have a nearly perfect mechanical anti chop system that performs better than many electronic anti chopping devices.

3. Is faster rates of fire all that important? in all seriousness i have seen many mech mags reach ROF's of around 14-16 without bounce, some even without the ULT. The 2-4 bps difference which occurs between these markers and electros is insignificant given that the person using the slower marker has skill and does not only know how to dump paint.


to summarize....we need to stop all this talk about rof, and get back to skills. if youve got skills, then it doesnt matter what kind of marker the other team has, or how fast theyre shooting, because thats all they have. ive seen guys with mech mags take out entire teams of guys with timmys and shockers, etc. etc.

Paintball isnt about how much money you have to spend on buying a super fast electro marker and dumping endless amounts of paint. Its about having skills and adapting those skills in order to achieve victory, regardless of equipment.


--Mike



*rant*

-edit- by the way, good luck with your omen, i hope that it suits you well for your style of play, and that you enjoy it as long as you have it.

[BD_Paintball]

WRONG companies who have warrantees are good companies who back there product and make sure that you get replacement parts if something does ever break. AKA as a warranty, so they have crap products? and the part about it doesen't matter how much you shoot is wrong too. my fried just went the Avalanche clinic here in chicago and they worked on shooting off the break and shooting tons of paint. then one kid asked why we dont practice snap shooting and things like that and all the avalanche players said that its not part of the game anymore. the more you shoot the better you will do. you can see this the most in lower divisions like rookie b/c the kids dont want to pop out of there bunker if you are shooting tons of paint at them. the lvl 10 in my experence was not that good. you had to tune it and if it was not perfect and you are shooting brittle tourny paint it will chop it. eyes dont have to worry about something hitting the ball and thn bounce back. and like i said befor if your gun is reactive at all you will be pulled by a ref, why take the risk?

1. Is a comprehensie warranty needed? Companys that make cheap products need to have warranties so that they can convince people to buy their product. all a warranty does is make you feel good inside about making your purchase. In all my 4 years of using mags, only one time have i absolutely needed to have an AGD tech work on one of my markers. Mags are quite possibly the simplest marker on the market, and requires very little maintainance to keep them working.

2. Flaws? i can tell you one thing, the automag has very few, if any flaws compared to other markers. mags have a nearly perfect mechanical anti chop system that performs better than many electronic anti chopping devices.

3. Is faster rates of fire all that important? in all seriousness i have seen many mech mags reach ROF's of around 14-16 without bounce, some even without the ULT. The 2-4 bps difference which occurs between these markers and electros is insignificant given that the person using the slower marker has skill and does not only know how to dump paint.


to summarize....we need to stop all this talk about rof, and get back to skills. if youve got skills, then it doesnt matter what kind of marker the other team has, or how fast theyre shooting, because thats all they have. ive seen guys with mech mags take out entire teams of guys with timmys and shockers, etc. etc.

Paintball isnt about how much money you have to spend on buying a super fast electro marker and dumping endless amounts of paint. Its about having skills and adapting those skills in order to achieve victory, regardless of equipment.


--Mike



*rant*

-edit- by the way, good luck with your omen, i hope that it suits you well for your style of play, and that you enjoy it as long as you have it.

[LaW]

my fried just went the Avalanche clinic here in chicago and they worked on shooting off the break and shooting tons of paint. then one kid asked why we dont practice snap shooting and things like that and all the avalanche players said that its not part of the game anymore. the more you shoot the better you will do. you can see this the most in lower divisions like rookie b/c the kids dont want to pop out of there bunker if you are shooting tons of paint at them.

And this is exactly the WRONG direction this sport is heading. We are in an age where pure ROF can make up for lack of overall skill. Of course this is not always the case but come on... Thanks for pointing that out because some people seem to not think that ROF is all tournament paintball is really about anymore.

[xXHavokXx]

Again, I'm going to have to disagree. Paintball isn't going to a lack of skill just replaced with ROF , it is evolving with the new availible technology. In the begining you couldn't mow out 17 bps so people learned to snap shoot and make quick accurate shots. Now you see kids running through streams of paintballs, shooting quick accurate bursts while having their bunker getting blasted by the back men, watch front players do some crazy ninja manuver through a gap in someones ropes in paint and still make their bunker. The main place where ROF is most effective is off the break, after that you're seeing a combination of the old ways and adaptations to new technology.

Every week at the fields I see old school players trying to use old school tactics on younger players and yeah sometimes they work and sometimes they dont. Old guys with pumps, cockers and mags talking about how their 200 dollar setup just beat a 2000 dollar set up abd bragging then saying its the player not the gun. They why compare set up cost? Half the time they do whip up on people, half the time they don't. Our team captain has been playing for a long time, he still uses his first electro 98 LED and said he had been playing for a long time before that was even a thought in his mind, if you watch him he still plays the old game but it is very adapted to the new game. He rocks a DM4 and isn't afraid to empty his pack if need be, he'll use ROF to overpower you or 2 shots to pick you off. It is all adaptation.

We recently scrimmaged 7 man, with an older team. We knew we had the advantage off the break but as soon as people hit their primaries we had a struggle coming on. Why? These guys can snap shoot and work together very very well. We have a couple older players so we had some of that as well but some of us aren't as old. As the day went on we started winning more because we didn't play their game, we never got into snap sooting battles with one person. If you engage them in a "duel" your gonna die. So we teamed on them, If my mirror tryed to engage me I dumped him off on the tape guy, and i would take him. We crossed up on people and tried to pinch them out. They were so programmed to try the one on one snap shooting they had done for so long they would get hit by the second or third person we stuck on em.

In conclusion : Evolve or die, shoot a fly.