Its been hard, but im gettin out of the mag family

[tyrion2323]

1. Is a comprehensie warranty needed? Companys that make cheap products need to have warranties so that they can convince people to buy their product. all a warranty does is make you feel good inside about making your purchase. In all my 4 years of using mags, only one time have i absolutely needed to have an AGD tech work on one of my markers. Mags are quite possibly the simplest marker on the market, and requires very little maintainance to keep them working.

2. Flaws? i can tell you one thing, the automag has very few, if any flaws compared to other markers. mags have a nearly perfect mechanical anti chop system that performs better than many electronic anti chopping devices.

3. Is faster rates of fire all that important? in all seriousness i have seen many mech mags reach ROF's of around 14-16 without bounce, some even without the ULT. The 2-4 bps difference which occurs between these markers and electros is insignificant given that the person using the slower marker has skill and does not only know how to dump paint.


to summarize....we need to stop all this talk about rof, and get back to skills. if youve got skills, then it doesnt matter what kind of marker the other team has, or how fast theyre shooting, because thats all they have. ive seen guys with mech mags take out entire teams of guys with timmys and shockers, etc. etc.

Paintball isnt about how much money you have to spend on buying a super fast electro marker and dumping endless amounts of paint. Its about having skills and adapting those skills in order to achieve victory, regardless of equipment.


--Mike



*rant*

-edit- by the way, good luck with your omen, i hope that it suits you well for your style of play, and that you enjoy it as long as you have it.

I understand that you're a bit ferklempt; however, you make some very old assumptions about paintball in your post.

(1) Warranties. Any marker can break. In fact, AGD fans used to list the warranty and customer support of AGD as one of the greatest parts of buying a 'mag. Which one is it? Is a great warranty and good customer service representative of a crappy product? If so, you're making quite a harsh indictment of AGD, AKA and Evil on a very simplistic notion.

Regarding simplicity, the mag is more complicated than quite a few markers out there: Stacked-tube blow-backs, Stacked tube electro-pneumatics and pump markers. AGD markers are, in fact, some of the most finicky markers out there. Is this a bad thing? No - they're made to the highest standards in the marker - but it can be problematic if even a slight problem occurs.

(2) Regarding flaws; yes, the automag does has flaws. I have played with Automags five years and have noticed quite a few. Many of these have been ironed out; however, some still remain. I list the following as flaws per my judgment: (1) low efficiency (2) inability to properly perform under 800psi (3) ease of short-stroking (4) finicky tolerances. Am I saying that the mag is a bad marker? Heck no; however, I am able to recognize that nothing is perfect.

Looking at the anti-chop system, I agree with you that the Level-10 is a wonderful and innovative design; however, however I wouldn't call it better than the CAM feed or ACE systems. Here's my logic:
- The ACE systems are active. They will not allow the marker to fire unless a ball is
completely loaded. While they used to have problems with the electronics, current
circuitry has all but eliminated that problem.
- The CAM feed is possibly the simplest anti-chop feed system on the market. It is very
similar to the ACE systems in that it ensures that a ball is properly and completely
loaded in the chamber before the bolt moves forward. If set up properly, it's
impossible to break a ball in the chamber.
Of course, everything is based on how well tuned the marker is. A crappily tuned marker (no matter the marker) will always seem junky. Just as a poorly tuned L10 will not work, nor will an ACE or CAM system.

(3) Regarding rate-of-fire, I find it very difficult to take your argument seriously. In tournament-style paintball today, rate-of-fire is very important. I have competed in tournaments with a mech mag. I have also competed in tournaments with my Omen and Impulse. I can tell you that from a strategic and performance standpoint the electros will win consistently. This is due to a few things: (1) advantages in posting (2) advantages in snap-shooting (3) ability to suppress (4) ability to eliminate an opponent on the move.

All of these factors are influenced by the rate of fire of your marker. While it's definitely true that the player's skill is extremely important, equipment is also a deciding factor. Yes, there are some anomalies and upsets; however, the majority of games will show that higher rates of fire will aid players. Statistics/Research methodoly proves me right here.

In today's tournament paintball, speed and ability to fire are considered skills. To ignore that fact is to attempt to live in a dream world. Paintball is more than just simply SKILLS or ROF. It's a mixture of everything. Most importantly, it's strategy. Strategy is inextricably linked with communication, planned movement, ability to suppress and ability to work as a team. Since a paintball will not fly the same path twice, ability to provide a quick burst of fire not only allows for suppression but allows you to actually HIT someone.

Now regarding the Omen, I've already made my points. I get terribly offended when people on AO immediately cry disparagements towards other markers (especially Omens!) when most of them are inexperienced with the marker. To call the Omen a chop-machine is the same as calling an automag a blender. Remember that the Omen is only a little over one-year old. The 'mag has had 11 years to evolve.

[LaW]

Again, I'm going to have to disagree. Paintball isn't going to a lack of skill just replaced with ROF , it is evolving with the new availible technology. In the begining you couldn't mow out 17 bps so people learned to snap shoot and make quick accurate shots. Now you see kids running through streams of paintballs, shooting quick accurate bursts while having their bunker getting blasted by the back men, watch front players do some crazy ninja manuver through a gap in someones ropes in paint and still make their bunker. The main place where ROF is most effective is off the break, after that you're seeing a combination of the old ways and adaptations to new technology.

Every week at the fields I see old school players trying to use old school tactics on younger players and yeah sometimes they work and sometimes they dont. Old guys with pumps, cockers and mags talking about how their 200 dollar setup just beat a 2000 dollar set up abd bragging then saying its the player not the gun. They why compare set up cost? Half the time they do whip up on people, half the time they don't. Our team captain has been playing for a long time, he still uses his first electro 98 LED and said he had been playing for a long time before that was even a thought in his mind, if you watch him he still plays the old game but it is very adapted to the new game. He rocks a DM4 and isn't afraid to empty his pack if need be, he'll use ROF to overpower you or 2 shots to pick you off. It is all adaptation.

We recently scrimmaged 7 man, with an older team. We knew we had the advantage off the break but as soon as people hit their primaries we had a struggle coming on. Why? These guys can snap shoot and work together very very well. We have a couple older players so we had some of that as well but some of us aren't as old. As the day went on we started winning more because we didn't play their game, we never got into snap sooting battles with one person. If you engage them in a "duel" your gonna die. So we teamed on them, If my mirror tryed to engage me I dumped him off on the tape guy, and i would take him. We crossed up on people and tried to pinch them out. They were so programmed to try the one on one snap shooting they had done for so long they would get hit by the second or third person we stuck on em.

In conclusion : Evolve or die, shoot a fly.

I'm going to say you have your vision I have mine... we can argue it till our heads fall off. The way I see it is that some of the skill that has always been so useful is gone and the thing is its easier to learn how to shoot ropes of paint than it is to learn how to make every single shot count... The team with the most money, the most paint to throw, usually has the best advantage. It should be the player that makes the player but these days sometimes the marker helps make the player and that just shouldnt be.

The main concern I have is this change from fun to win at all costs mentality that many players nowadays have! This is why paintball has been moving in the wrong direction... one reason at least. It will be some time before we see this sport on tv in a decent format, the way it is right now will not appeal to the non-ballers. Maybe the whole idea of unlimited rof, fullauto being allowed etc are just ways to make this sport "extreme" when it really is not that extreme. They have to ignore some saftey so there can be some kind of "danger" factor so people can be like, "wow paintball is the best extreme sport, you can get so hurt!"

Its just hard to argue with people that cant look at different perspectives. Its like arguing with a bunch of kids from pbnation. Do I accept the current trends? Yes. Do I have to like them because its the way it is right now? Absolutely not. Has my game evolved to include some of these current trends? of course. Will paintball continue to be growing as fast as it has been? In my opinion, our big Boom is over.