The Shocker, rebound, and the field

[MindJob]

I hate to say it....

...but a lot of people wish that the E/X-mags had this "'feature". I know a few guys who passed up on E-mags in favor of markers that had this bounce/turbo/cheater thingy or whatever the heck you call it.

First rule of marketing : give 'em what they want (even if it makes no sense)

[Lohman446]

[QUOTE=punkncat]

Shame on you by supporting this in buying their product.
QUOTE]

Back to the, if you have to agree with everything a PB company does your not going to play argument I have nothing against the following companies, but look at the argument. But when you guys are perfect, or know all of the information behind a companies decision.... welll I just think criticizing SP is getting old.

Fine - shame one people for supporting Dye - a) there C4 gear seems designed around bounce. B) The DM4 was made to accept aftermarket chips readily, for what reason - I'm sure theres others

Shame on people for supporting PMI - they knowingly produced a marker in clear violation of numerous court accepted patents (The PIMP). Even if SP did not hold that patent WDP did, the courts found they both do. I'm sure there are others

Shame on AGD - they produces a gun that out of the box is not tournament legal. They used an unapproved alternate air source.

Shame on WGP - tehy tried to enforce trade dress that they should have nothing to do with. And they sold out to K2

Shame on Tippman - I mean RT on a tippman is way too fast.

Shame on Kingman, they porfit off they use of non-American labor and workes with a lower standard of living.

Shame on AKA - the whole low pressure and closed bolt accuracy myth was exploited extremely well.

Shame one Bob Long and the easily modified Intimidators.

Any other company we want to look at to see all the things they have done in the past?

[paullus99]

I was at my first (and only) tournament this weekend - just a small event at a local field. They had an electro & mechanical division (3-man), so we decided to hop in & see what we could do.

We had a great time & took second in the mechanical (an A-5, 98, & my mag rounding out the markers). Lots of younger kids & we were the only team to beat the first placers (a group of electro guys who decided to throw in on the mechanical side).

Now, the reason behind this post - on the electro side, there was a team (wearing grey Empire Jerseys) shooting what I assumed were Shockers (electro gun ID is not my strongpoint). Tourney rules stated one-pull, one shoot (no bounce, even on the mechanical side). They were warned once (because it was obvious they were all bouncing in their first game), then in the second to last game, they did it again & somebody got hurt.

One of the guys on the other team was behind the dorrito, got hit a few times from the front, was pulled by the ref (great reffing btw, didn't take crap from anyone & really did their jobs well), then one of the other guys comes around his bunker & put another 15 - 25 additional shots into the guy, and since his back was turned, 4 or 5 of them went up underneath his mask right into his ear. He suffered at least temporary hearing loss (for as long as I was there). This was from about 5 - 10 feet away.

Now, not being used to the typical tourney (and not ever wanting to get used to it - its just not for me) I was shocked by the blatant disregard of the rules. It was a bad ending to an otherwise enjoyable day.

[GT]

Fine - shame one people for supporting Dye - a) there C4 gear seems designed around bounce. B) The DM4 was made to accept aftermarket chips readily, for what reason - I'm sure theres others

Shame on people for supporting PMI - they knowingly produced a marker in clear violation of numerous court accepted patents (The PIMP). Even if SP did not hold that patent WDP did, the courts found they both do. I'm sure there are others

Shame on AGD - they produces a gun that out of the box is not tournament legal. They used an unapproved alternate air source.

Shame on WGP - tehy tried to enforce trade dress that they should have nothing to do with. And they sold out to K2

Shame on Tippman - I mean RT on a tippman is way too fast.

Shame on Kingman, they porfit off they use of non-American labor and workes with a lower standard of living.

Shame on AKA - the whole low pressure and closed bolt accuracy myth was exploited extremely well.

Shame one Bob Long and the easily modified Intimidators.

Any other company we want to look at to see all the things they have done in the past?

ok...
I am willing to bet the number of people hurt by the new versions of boards are going to far exceed the sillness of your shame list.

They were warned once (because it was obvious they were all bouncing in their first game), then in the second to last game, they did it again & somebody got hurt.

All it takes today is a credit card and a phone call to defeat a large gap in player skill by upgrading thier equipments performance..

[Lohman446]

I was at my first (and only) tournament this weekend - just a small event at a local field. They had an electro & mechanical division (3-man), so we decided to hop in & see what we could do.

We had a great time & took second in the mechanical (an A-5, 98, & my mag rounding out the markers). Lots of younger kids & we were the only team to beat the first placers (a group of electro guys who decided to throw in on the mechanical side).

Now, the reason behind this post - on the electro side, there was a team (wearing grey Empire Jerseys) shooting what I assumed were Shockers (electro gun ID is not my strongpoint). Tourney rules stated one-pull, one shoot (no bounce, even on the mechanical side). They were warned once (because it was obvious they were all bouncing in their first game), then in the second to last game, they did it again & somebody got hurt.

One of the guys on the other team was behind the dorrito, got hit a few times from the front, was pulled by the ref (great reffing btw, didn't take crap from anyone & really did their jobs well), then one of the other guys comes around his bunker & put another 15 - 25 additional shots into the guy, and since his back was turned, 4 or 5 of them went up underneath his mask right into his ear. He suffered at least temporary hearing loss (for as long as I was there). This was from about 5 - 10 feet away.

Now, not being used to the typical tourney (and not ever wanting to get used to it - its just not for me) I was shocked by the blatant disregard of the rules. It was a bad ending to an otherwise enjoyable day.

A regretable situation - my first point of this and likely agreed with by everyone here.

However, is this the new Nerve style boards fault. Likely not... its a player behind it. What I found with it playing is I was off the trigger faster because I was paying less attention to the trigger and more to the game around me. As such, although the string was in the air it was not continued after the first hit. The field I play at has a strong rule regarding more than four breaks on someone from less than 20 feet away (when your all the way across field sometimes strings do happen). Its a 2 or 3 for 1 penalty.

I would argue that the Nerve style board is ideal - when I bunker someone I pull the trigger three times - not enough to "excite the board". Further, unlike some bouncey guns I have seen as soon as I quit pulling the trigger the paint stops. No shot buffering (my e-mag had shot buffering) to fire those pulls after I quit pulling the trigger.

It is illegal in most places... but it is not this great evil everyone makes it to be. I would argue that shot buffering is much more dangerous than whatever is happening with the Nerve board. I could argue that a 20 foot per second rise in chrono speed from single fired shots to rapid fire shots is dangerous. Theres a lot of arguments out there. Do I think this might be dangerous - sure it might be. But shooting any projectile at anyone carries an inherent degree of risk.

[Beemer]

What Ever

Seriously - liability, I carry a personal liability policy that covers my actions on the field... likely would be in effect before the fields and could likely settle to cover the field as well off of mine.

And why do you feel this is needed?? Sounds like you know what your policy covers.[likely would be..........likely settle to cover] It does or doesnt...... Will or will not is more like it.
Maybe you should know for sure since you think you need it in the first place.

No shot buffering (my e-mag had shot buffering) to fire those pulls after I quit pulling the trigger.

This is not true.

One of the guys on the other team was behind the dorrito, got hit a few times from the front, was pulled by the ref (great reffing btw, didn't take crap from anyone & really did their jobs well), then one of the other guys comes around his bunker & put another 15 - 25 additional shots into the guy, and since his back was turned, 4 or 5 of them went up underneath his mask right into his ear. He suffered at least temporary hearing loss (for as long as I was there). This was from about 5 - 10 feet away.

Now, not being used to the typical tourney (and not ever wanting to get used to it - its just not for me) I was shocked by the blatant disregard of the rules. It was a bad ending to an otherwise enjoyable day.

Hope he is ok.. Did he take any to the neck area? Did he go to a Doc. A hemorrage can have an effect days after it happens.

Theres a lot of arguments out there. Do I think this might be dangerous - sure it might be. But shooting any projectile at anyone carries an inherent degree of risk.

There is no might be only IS.

I think you are less informed then I thought you were.


Add................Its like the exploading Pinto in AGDs post.

[Creative Mayhem]

The marker was insane.... one finger you could fire off the Halo's paint supply with astounding speed.

Hmm makes you wonder....

Cheat mode, by any another name, would sound as foul.

Good call...

SP + Rebound = Legal

AGD + Reactive Trigger = Illegal?

Does anyone else see a problem? IT sounds like the same priciple, one mech in nature, the other programmed, how is one legal and the other not?

I only have one thing to say... What a CROCK OF @#$!

[Lohman446]

Shot buffering does not "store" trigger pulls? I never was fast enough to get any stored on the e-mag, but I have seen guns that do this and will continue to fire after you let off the trigger.

As for my liability policy - as long as it is not in my area of expertise negligence is unlikely to be found. The key is intent to the policy. As long as I did not intend to harm the person I am shooting at and resonable safeguards (masks) are in place, I am covered.

As for it being dangerous - anything is to a degree. I said firing any projectile at a person was dangerous, granted firing 20 would be twice as dangerous as firing 10, sure I'll give that. But the risk is so small as to be tolerable. If paintball represented an immediate threat to the long term physical well being of its participants I might not be playing.

[Beemer]

Hmm makes you wonder...

I only have one thing to say... What a CROCK OF @#$!

Yup just like when the warp came out.. Can you say Chinese DownHill[what rules]

[Lohman446]

I would like to point out also, seems how I get to defend my actions...

I referred to this many times as cheat mode at the field. I think the exact line was "I can't pull the trigger fast so I found a gun to cheat for me."

I made no attempt to hide it from anyone on the field, to hide what I was doing. Everyone there knew it, I wasn't trying to sneak it by anyone. Was I trying to gain an unfair advantage, maybe. Then again, I had this marker against me as much as with me as it was passed around during the day.

Now a lot of you have brought up valid issues, and would regardless - but how many of you would be saying "way to show those electros who rules" if I had stated I had done the same thing with a mag and 1100 PSI of input pressure. This is not to apply to everyone, some of the points brought up are well thought out, and to some degree valid, however some of the flak Im taking is because I did it with an SP product.

I like the conversation... but my argument is normally that the most dangerous part of paintball has nothing to do with the paint in the air, it has to do with the 4500PSI tanks six inches from our heads.

[1stdeadeye]

How do you adjust rebound in a Shocker? It only has one button.

[Beemer]

As long as I did not intend to harm the person I am shooting at and resonable safeguards (masks) are in place, I am covered.

Its a whole lot more then just masks. Forget about the ASTM standards that were supposed to be reasonable safe guards.

[Lohman446]

How do you adjust rebound in a Shocker? It only has one button.

One the inside of the grip, where you adjust dwell and debounce (or whatever you want to call it, you can only go down to 30 miliseconds) you can now adjust rebound settings from one to five on the newest boards. Most Shockers do not have this yet, but the newest ones do, the Nerve board in essence in a Shocker. Theres only one accessible button on the outside, you can't adjust things from it (at least stock Im sure some programming experts have toyed with other things but those are illegal and trying to hide it). If you an adjust things like shots per second without tools it is in a gray area by PSP rules - though I will point out this was nto an issue when playing with my e-mag anywhere.

[teufelhunden]

...but a lot of people wish that the E/X-mags had this "'feature". I know a few guys who passed up on E-mags in favor of markers that had this bounce/turbo/cheater thingy or whatever the heck you call it.

It does... it's called Hybrid mode.

[1stdeadeye]

One the inside of the grip, where you adjust dwell and debounce (or whatever you want to call it, you can only go down to 30 miliseconds) you can now adjust rebound settings from one to five on the newest boards. Most Shockers do not have this yet, but the newest ones do, the Nerve board in essence in a Shocker. Theres only one accessible button on the outside, you can't adjust things from it (at least stock Im sure some programming experts have toyed with other things but those are illegal and trying to hide it). If you an adjust things like shots per second without tools it is in a gray area by PSP rules - though I will point out this was nto an issue when playing with my e-mag anywhere.

I'll have to open mine up and play with it!