The Shocker, rebound, and the field

[Lohman446]

Its a whole lot more then just masks. Forget about the ASTM standards that were supposed to be reasonable safe guards.

Can I be legally expected to follow the standards that even the industry itself does not? I have an expectation that anything I am buying unaltered from the factory, falls within accepted standards of safety.

[Beemer]

Can I be legally expected to follow the standards that even the industry itself does not? I have an expectation that anything I am buying unaltered from the factory, falls within accepted standards of safety.

GOOD question

Guess where this disclaimer is posted

Players are responsible for ensuring their paintball gear meets all ASTM and insurance standards and are within the set range of posted chronographed feet-per-second prior to entering the field

[Lohman446]

Good question can I ask where?

I should be more concerned though about the thing printed on the side of the solenoid pack (I assume thats what it was) on the Shocker "Max pressure 100PSI" or something similar, the idea is that. I could swear the gun ran at 170PSI.

[Beemer]

here

2/3rds down the page

http://www.celebritypaintball.com/eventinfo.html

[Lohman446]

I suppose you know them enough to point out that anything but one shot one pull is against them?

Frankly can I be expected to have the equipment, and the knowledge to test to ATSM standards. Is it not reasonable of me to assume that equipment unalterered out of the box, meets all accepted standards? Thats a rhetorical question - I'm sure you can point out where they don't but please do understand my point.

For those of you thinking Im a jerk for using this, it can be turned off, its not something I would use at any event that it was not expressly allowed at.

[Beemer]

Yup

Is it not reasonable of me to assume that equipment unalterered out of the box, meets all accepted standards? Thats a rhetorical question - I'm sure you can point out where they don't but please do understand my point.

It SURE is. But you know what assume does. And thats the big money question. Why dont they. Back to the exploading Pinto and Chinese DownHill.

[Lohman446]

The important question then becomes, should the unthinkable happen and someone is injured because a piece of equipment did not meet ATSM standards, who is a jury going to be at fault.

I only have to pass the reasonable person test, that I had a reasonable expectation of the equipment being safe.

The manufacturer on the other hand.... well there not me. Should push come to shove I expect that the manufacturer and not the individual player would be held accountable. I might be wrong, and thats where liability insurance comes into play

[Beemer]

Lots

of questions eh.

Need to talk to a lawyer more.

I can tell you this. The first place the CPSC goes when the crap hits the fan is the ASTM standards even though they are voluntary.

Look what happened to Ford with the Pinto thing.

[Caffiend]

It SURE is. But you know what assume does. And thats the big money question. Why dont they. Back to the exploading Pinto and Chinese DownHill.

Can you explain the Chinese DownHill? Are you talking about the ski/snowboard race down a huge arse mountain? I'm not understanding the connection. I feel like a

[Beemer]

yes

Can you explain the Chinese DownHill? Are you talking about the ski/snowboard race down a huge arse mountain? I'm not understanding the connection. I feel like a

Ya HotDog the movie. Chinese DownHill........"WTF is Chinese DownHill" "First the rules, there are no rules.

[Caffiend]

ohhhhhh, ok. thank you.

[punkncat]

[QUOTE=Lohman446]

Shame on you by supporting this in buying their product.
QUOTE]

Back to the, if you have to agree with everything a PB company does your not going to play argument I have nothing against the following companies, but look at the argument. But when you guys are perfect, or know all of the information behind a companies decision.... welll I just think criticizing SP is getting old.

Fine - shame one people for supporting Dye - a) there C4 gear seems designed around bounce. B) The DM4 was made to accept aftermarket chips readily, for what reason - I'm sure theres others

Shame on people for supporting PMI - they knowingly produced a marker in clear violation of numerous court accepted patents (The PIMP). Even if SP did not hold that patent WDP did, the courts found they both do. I'm sure there are others

Shame on AGD - they produces a gun that out of the box is not tournament legal. They used an unapproved alternate air source.

Shame on WGP - tehy tried to enforce trade dress that they should have nothing to do with. And they sold out to K2

Shame on Tippman - I mean RT on a tippman is way too fast.

Shame on Kingman, they porfit off they use of non-American labor and workes with a lower standard of living.

Shame on AKA - the whole low pressure and closed bolt accuracy myth was exploited extremely well.

Shame one Bob Long and the easily modified Intimidators.

Any other company we want to look at to see all the things they have done in the past?

If this helps justify to you the use of a marker that cheats for you , then fine. If its ok to you.......

Any manufacturer that produced a marker that wasn't easily upgraded or modified would basically be shutting their own doors. Using aftermarket boards / programming whatever is one thing(not saying its right , but its optional). Grabbing a marker straight out of the box from the manufacturer that cheats is another entirely.

I really cannot see where RT is even comparable to this discussion as RT has an exact effect on the number of shots (1 back 1 forward in response), or just allowing reactivity with its "return". There is a direct mechanical correlation to shots fired to pulls rather than a multiplier ramping up shots from moderate, sustained trigger pulls.

Honestly I think the only people who will benefit from this are paint manufacturers. Streams of ill fired paint cannot make up for nor replace skill. We will see a major rift in the sport caused by those that can afford the toys and those who will be intimidated by it ,possibly not play in the first place, and/or can't afford it. I feel like this trend is going to end up damaging the sport because of it.

Personally I think the BPS cap should be made a standard. One shot , one pull made a standard , and bring skill back to the game rather than a measure of financial resource. I know its utopian , but hey we can all dream.