NEW Rules for Flying with Paintball Gear

[Kaiser Bob]

Hrrmmm...maybe the X-ray is to make sure there's no bomb, cash, drugs or other prohibited items in it?

As for making sure the tank is decompressed, considering the fact that at cruising altitude (35,000 feet) the air pressure outside the plane is .3 atmosphere and the plane is only pressurized to around .85 atmospheres, I would say it's a good think to depressureize and potentially explosive air canisters.

Just keep in mind that air travel is not a "right" so if you get booted off a plane for not following the rules no one is to blame but yourself.

I'm curious though. What did you do at NWK?

EWR last i checked :P, as far as pressure differences go, 1 atm to 0 atm would only create a difference in pressure of 14psi no? How would even that make our tanks go boom?

[Big'n slo]

Off Topic but


JJBrookshire we're neighbors :)

[manike]

EWR last i checked :P, as far as pressure differences go, 1 atm to 0 atm would only create a difference in pressure of 14psi no? How would even that make our tanks go boom?

It wouldn't as I once tried to explain to an airport handler...

There is NO risk WHATSOEVER of an increase in relative pressure at altitude making the tank rupture. None. Nadda. Zip. Nought.... etc.

[SlartyBartFast]

It wouldn't as I once tried to explain to an airport handler...

There is NO risk WHATSOEVER of an increase in relative pressure at altitude making the tank rupture. None. Nadda. Zip. Nought.... etc.

Well, the way I see it is:

- They want your tank at ZERO psi not because they're worried about a good tank rupturing after a 14psig increase, but because they're worried about a BAD tank rupturing at 5,000psi. They don't want to trust your guages, they don't want to have to train handlers to inspect specialy equipment. Removing arupture disc would accomplish that. But, then you'd be asking them to trust your tank design and you that the rupture disk actually vents the tank.

- Since the security scare, they want to be able to SEE inside your tank to know nothing is hidden inside. The only way to do that is to remove the regulator. Xray machines are incapable of seeing inside metal objects. Thin wall aluminum tanks MAY be able to pass through Xrays and show as empty, but then your asking for exemptions and special circumstances for different items. With so many things to check, they want to use ONE foolproof method.

- Even if the Xray machine showed it was empty, whats to say the tank isn't filled with something explosive with a dummy vent valve on the regulator and the regulator contains some detonator?


But, then again, travelling with one of my managers whos ex-military (British special forces, he busted IRA heads in Northern Ireland amongst other assignment) he noted that not once did security open an Altoids mint box he was carrying. He assured (not sure that's the word) that he could do much more than enough damage with what he could fit in that box if he wanted.

If you think about it, an empty tank with the regulator removed could still camouflage a lot of nasty devices and substances.

I suppose it might come to us all travelling in airline issue slippers and robes and all the luggage on a separate flight.

[manike]

Well, the way I see it is:

- They want your tank at ZERO psi not because they're worried about a good tank rupturing after a 14psig increase, but because they're worried about a BAD tank rupturing at 5,000psi. They don't want to trust your guages, they don't want to have to train handlers to inspect specialy equipment. Removing arupture disc would accomplish that. But, then you'd be asking them to trust your tank design and you that the rupture disk actually vents the tank.

My tank was empty. Always are when I fly.

He wanted to tell me that the change in pressure would take the tank from zero to over it's burst limit. I tried not to laugh at him. and took some time to show him the 4500psi rating, the fact these tranks have a factor of safety of 3.4 minimum (carbon wrapped tank) and that the change in pressure at height would be so little it wouldn't even show on the gauge ( I worked it out at abour 24psi off the top of my head but I think I overestimated...). He wasn't convinced. At that point I decided he was a moron and just unscrewed the reg anyway because none of mine are loctited in. Ever since then I always take the regs out of the cylinders.

Even VERY bad fibre wrapped tanks require large pressures to rupture, and even then they leak rather than explode.

[SlartyBartFast]

He wanted to tell me that the change in pressure would take the tank from zero to over it's burst limit. I tried not to laugh at him.

Give the guys some slack. MOST of the general population has no idea about pressure vessels and ratings.

To read vessel ratings and determine whether pressures are correct or not requires specialty knowledge. Granted a LITTLE bit of knowledge would have stopped the fool in question proving himself and idiot, but it is not the place of screeners to make judgment calls.

It is exactly for that reason that the rules are now so specific and they should have been from the beginning.

[manike]

Give the guys some slack. MOST of the general population has no idea about pressure vessels and ratings.

To read vessel ratings and determine whether pressures are correct or not requires specialty knowledge. Granted a LITTLE bit of knowledge would have stopped the fool in question proving himself and idiot, but it is not the place of screeners to make judgment calls.

It is exactly for that reason that the rules are now so specific and they should have been from the beginning.

Some slack? It was his job to know. When he doesn't know what he is talking about but trying to stop people doing something they are allowed to do? After a BA manager found out about the situation they bumped me to first class for my 'inconvenience'.

If he doesn't know he should ask, or not pretend to know. With what he was doing it was his JOB to know.

I didn't give him any aggro (I'm not stupid and still wanted to fly), I explained to him the real situation. I find educating people that don't know about paintball tanks and systems much better idea than leaving them in their ignorance to affect others. That's one reason we have worked hard on this new information and release and getting the TSA to do something about a situation that was rapidly getting worse.

He wasn't going to let me fly and wanted to take hundreds of dollars of equipment from me. That doesn't earn any 'slack' in my world. Let's see how much slack you would cut an idiot next time he tries to take hundreds of dollars of your stuff.

[RobAGD]

The big worry aboutthe tanks is that you could pack a lot of explosive materials in there and with a reg / det on top to seal up the tank the over pressure that could creat would be massive.

The guys at teh TSA and security desk are so un educated that can barly read the NON TOXIC marking on teh side of a case of paint, Let alone understand the basic of gas laws.

So for the last 12 years while flying I dont tell them anything. I check what I could check, Keep my tanks empty, and over the last 3 years remove the regs from my flatlines. I have had many encounters with TSA guys that didnt want to allow my tanks on the plane because they are pressure vessels. I then have to try and explain that my 64oz 7-11 cup is more of a pressure vessel than the tanks are as I can seal it and blow air into it and get a + pressure reading. It took 20 minutes and 2 more levels of idiots to get checked through.

To be honest I dont feel any safer flying as I know there are more ways to get things done than they are checking for. TSA is a feel good thing and it does help a little with the passenger idiot factor.

Oh well, I have some chimps driving to orlando they will have my tanks with them.

-Robert the Naughty

[JJBrookshire]

How to properly remove Regs

The following link has some good information regarding removal of regulators from experts in the field. Note that they do NOT recommend the use of Loctite.

http://www.carltech.com/new-composite/valves.html

[SlartyBartFast]

The following link has some good information regarding removal of regulators from experts in the field. Note that they do NOT recommend the use of Loctite.

http://www.carltech.com/new-composite/valves.html

That website also clearly states that flash filling is dangerous and should never be done.

Paintballers continue to flash fill and ignore the hazzard under the belief "It won't happen to me."

[CaliMagFan]

2 questions for the gallery...

1. How will paintball retailers deal with not being able to send tanks via air travel.... arent most shipped their first time on an aircraft? (i order things online from places on the east coast and midwest, and i do believe that those items i order are shipped on planes at one time or another... or is it that it only applies to private passengers on commercial airlines?.

2. what is "flash filling?" at my field they fill station guys attack the marker to the hose for HPA... press down on the booster button and you can hear the tank being filled... it takes about 20 sec, and they usually only fill to about 3500 out of 4500 cause they know you can come back frequently on an all-day pass..

thanks
-kyro

[Chris42050]

CaliMagFan- I think (correct me if I'm wrong people) there are different rules for shipping items. I think they are less strict because hijackers and such aren't really worried about bringing down a plane full of boxes rather than people.

And your local field is flash filling the tanks if it only takes 20 seconds. My field always does it and i have yet to see a problem. Every warning on the web (that I have seen) states that it shouldn't be done if your tank gets to hot to hold. I fill my tank in about 10-15 seconds and it never gets too hot too hold.