Emag Vs shocker

[trains are bad]

My bud is getting a new marker and is going with the shocker because of the size and feel. Only thing is he's not very mechanical and has been spoiled by having an angel for the past couple years that he doesn't have to do anything to except clean. A couple ppl around here have shockers and I'm not impressed with their idiot proofness, espcetially now as the weather gets colder.

Another thing is he's gonna warp it, and the vert feed shocker doesn't take that super cleanly.

I thought maybe he would like a ule emag because it has a similar feel, and with a warp ule could be warped very nicely and our whole team would be on cocker barrels.

It would not be able to run CO2 which was a minor advantage of the shocker.

The emag would have LX which the shocker would not (he's not getting vision)

I think he would consider it if a ule emag can be had cheaper than a shocker, and if it's fast, and if it's not too heavy. I have never shot an emag but I know they have a rep for relative slowness. However mat is not one to rip, he rarely even walks his trigger. Also, there is the battery thing, which is not so bad because there is no reg there.

So....

You think a warp ule emag could be set up for <800?
are they, with ule parts, really heavy? (my ule rt is featherlight)
They are decently fast right? Just not bouncily 20 bps fast.

[White_Noise]

if you look around, you might be able to get an ule emag for 800 or less. with the ule parts, they are quite light, the only thing that makes them heavier than a ule rt is the battery pack, but i find it not to be a problem. emags are quite fast, and with the 3.2 software, the bps cap is 20. i have seen emags shoot at 20 bps, but they were bouncing like mad. my emag has gotten up to 18-19 bps without bounce though, but personally i can only hit about 16.

[teufelhunden]

ULE E-Mags are, without mods, tourney illegal So for the non-mechanically inclined, that may present a challenge. The trigger pin needs to be removed and/or the selector switch removed in order for the E-Mag to become tourney legal.

As for maintenance, I think they Shocker's problem there lies not in the gun [all it needs is lube..] but in the damned vert Maxxy they throw on those guns.

With weight-- anything with a Warp will be heavy. Fact of life. The center of gravity will be off to whichever side the Warp is on, feeling unbalanced in many hands. Makes the third point of contact [shoulder] necessary, from my experiences. Another fact of life.

And yeah, from my findings, the Shocker is easier to go faster on. Even with 3.2 software, that can be a hinderance, as it's capped at 20, may or not may be an issue, as you said your friend isn't one to rip. 3.2, however, has shot buffering, whose legality is up in the air, depending where you play.


That said, in the ~800 price range, I'd look elsewhere, from both the Shocker and E-Mag. Used Trixes are DROPPING in value faster than a fatty runs/waddles/truffle shuffles to chocolate cake. He could find an ACE'd/Evolve'd/Tricked Shocker for less than 8 without a problem. Drawback is it would be heavier than either of the markers you listed. However, since it is more efficient than either of the other guns, he could use a smaller tank, therefore addressing the weight issue. A Trix is smooth as all hell, too..

And hey, Timmys are gettin nice and cheap, on the used side..

[ilikePB]

Shockers are very easy to maintain if you know what you are doing. Tell him to read the stickies in the Shocker forum on PBN. Also, check out this site for tons of info on Shockers:

http://www.angelfire.com/mech/zds/

Really all the Shocker needs for maintenance is you wipe off and lube the bolt after a day of play and twice a year clean the inserts and solenoid spool. I have a Warp that I use on my Shocker from time to time and have no problems with it. ULE E Mags are nice, but I have an easier time shooting my Shocker faster. Overall, the Shocker is my choice between it and a ULE E Mag, but it's mostly preference.

[adt501]

you dont have to remove the emag on off for a tourney. sure, if you ran an adjustable and jacked it over a grand, im sure someone would say something, but not if its left in e mod or manual. i only use electro mode anyways, and i will probably remove the on off for that reason alone, not legality issues.

i agree with teufelhunden, trixs are awesome and going cheap. so are timmys

if your friend wants to get a shocker without the eye, dont let him, if you call yourself a friend. can anyone say "paint blender?" my first shocker was an 03 and i was one of the first ones to get em, and the eye wasnt available at first. man, out of the box it shot so nice, at least for the first day. after two trips to smart parts it was gone. i didnt mind the chopping so much because i was going to get the eye as soon as it came out, but i wouldnt buy one now without one.

a year later, i had heard from many people that the shocker had been fixed, and being the stupid retard that i am, i purchased another (yes another) shocker, this time an 04 shocker. out of the box it leaked like mad. i thought it was the new maxy, as several people told me it was, but the reg worked fine on my other guns. after removing the bolt, i discovered several large shrapnel pieces from the bolt bumper. the diagram in the manual did not even have a part number for the bumper. smart parts would send me one (for a small fee). the local proshop told me to invest in a HE kit.

well, you know what? i dont want to buy a new gun and have to buy a new bolt to make it work, or get decent efficiency. i dont want to open up a brand new, out of the box gun, and fine fragments of broken pieces in it. so i traded my broken shocker for a buddies 3 year old ULE emag. he got the gun fixed, but i think he wants his emag back, he says hes going to buy another one. my guns awesome, im selling everything else (including my timmy). and im sending it to tuna for some cool extras. im very happy with my choice. my .02

[ilikePB]

adt501 - That is not normal. You happened to get a lemon, every manufacturer has lemons.
My Shocker has always worked perfectly.

[adt501]

i understand the concept of lemons. and i know there are many people happy with their shockers. before i bought my 2nd one, i shot several shockers that were awesome, and their owners loved them. but i also shot several that were crap. so i gambled and lost. too bad i had to gamble in the first place when buying an expensive paintball gun. im not alone in this opinion, the shocker has had its ringer of problems. granted, its expected to have problems when it is introduced (especially from SP, who has a history of releasing products before they're ready to go )

but there are still problems with the shocker. if you want to blame the negative impact of the sp lawsuit on peoples feelings toward shockers, you may do so, but again, i dont think you should get a gun out of the box that dosent work, and i got 2 of them.

[ilikePB]

but there are still problems with the shocker.

What are the problems?

[teufelhunden]

What are the problems?

Lack of HE bolt, vision isn't standard, trigger isn't the best stock...

[ilikePB]

Lack of HE bolt, vision isn't standard, trigger isn't the best stock...

How is lack of HE bolt a problem? It makes it just like a Trix. Plus even w/o an HE bolt kit it gets the same efficiency as a Mag, at least with the Shocker you have the option of getting better efficiency instead of having to get a bigger tank to get more shots. Vision's standard on the Vision guns, so they made a gun w/o Vision for those who can't afford. The Vision model is slightly cheaper than a FS which only comes with ace. So if they made only a Vision model it would still be the same price, I fail to see how this is a problem. The trigger is opinion, I still have the stock trigger because I like it, I am, however thinking of getting a NDZ Roller Blade trigger. Plus on most high end guns the trigger is one of the first things to upgraded.

[teufelhunden]

I feel the HE bolt should be stock because it's an SP made product. That's SP saying we specifically put out a product that's subpar so we could sell you the upgrade. A non-vision Shocker still costs $700. Most guns up in that range are ACE'd. And you know as well as I do that the vision board and eye does not cost $140, or whatever it's premium is. The trigger is fine, I just don't like how it's magnets are set up-- I've found it tough to get the trigger how I like it.


That said, I'm merely playing Devil's Advocate, as I feel that the Shocker is a good value for a good gun.

[trains are bad]

No way I could sell him on a trix, timmy, imp, Feel is very important. ICD freestyle maybe but too $$$

[Sac]

i like pb, you got the shocker already? sorry for butting in.

[Lohman446]

You can buy a new Vision Shocker w/rebound for $800 - the price some of these people are telling you for a used e-mag. You should be able to buy a used e-mag ULE for about $600.

I would not recommend buying a Shocker without Vision.

That being said I own two Vision Shockers, both with rebound and they are awesome guns. They feel "right" they shoot well and they seldom chop. I really really like these guns.

However, SP quality control sucks - I have owned three Shockers and only one has been "right" out of the box. One there was a piece of o-ring on the bolt causing a leak, no clue where that piece came from because it was not from any in the marker. The trigger pin was also loose and I had to secure it.

The other one the bolt endcap stuck coming out, I had to sink lag bolts in it to get it out because the allen fitting stripped. IT came out and one of the threads was folded forward - I called SP and they told me it was because I had air on the gun - I had never aired the marker up and the thread was folded forward, not back.

SP does not respond to e-mails I have waited months and you have to call them. THey will sell you parts for warranty, I said sell. At big events they are normally the only ones charging for repairs.

Awesome products, poor support...

[matmc89]

look into 05 speeds if he has that much $. Other than that AKA guns are great.