ever wonder how much it really cost to produce any gun

[punkncat]

A good example of a "New" gun that kept the same name is the Shocker. The new Shocker is totoally different than the old, and not just in the milling aspect. How much money and how long do you think it took SP to get that gun from thought to a person's hands.

I don't know that it took as much effort as you are insinuating. With CAD design they whipped up the body in no time. Single tube design is nothing new to the buisiness...
The internal workings of the marker are nothing new. Matrix have been out for years using a spool valve design that was easy enough to copy.

Not SP bashing or anything , but the new Shocker certainly wasn't revolutionary.

Did you think about how many people had to pay full price so you could get your discounted BMX bike? Thats one of the things that goes in to the real cost, they are using you as advertising, you get it cheap so other people see how cool you are and go and buy the bike at full price. If you didn't take the cheap bike that was offered everyone else would pay less for there bike. So your part of the problem

This is not necessarily true. If he is buying his equipment at a distributor/wholesale price rather than a retail price it could easily be that much difference in price. A standard retail markup is better than X2.5 on many products we buy.

I am sure you recognize this , running your own buisiness and all. Not any kind of dig at you specifically , but hey , most retailers are seriously sticking it to consumers. Especially in paintball.

[-=Squid=-]

Some people in here obviously don't know a whole lot about production of new products.

Down at our plant, it takes MANY months to get something as simple as a tiny, plastic valve with a rotating on off knob into production. I can't imagine a fully functional marker, composed of MANY different materials, some (if not most) of which aren't even produced in house.

- Goro

[punkncat]

Some people in here obviously don't know a whole lot about production of new products.

Down at our plant, it takes MANY months to get something as simple as a tiny, plastic valve with a rotating on off knob into production. I can't imagine a fully functional marker, composed of MANY different materials, some (if not most) of which aren't even produced in house.

- Goro

I understand that R&D on a completly new product is phenominal. But the costs are significantly reduced when you are just standing on the shoulders of the ones before.

Its like when Spyder puts out a "new" marker , the only thing they really did was spend a few hours on CAD making a few things up (maybe less time when you really look at them) , throw together a few models , pick one after a bit of marketing , and throw the same old parts inside of the "new" gun.

The Shocker is a new marker for SP , but it didn't have anything that someone else hadn't already worked out. Topped off by the fact that SP has much technology and experiance at their disposal. It didn't cost them near as much to throw the shocker together as it woud have for a new/small company to totally design the thing.

[-=Squid=-]

I understand that R&D on a completly new product is phenominal. But the costs are significantly reduced when you are just standing on the shoulders of the ones before.

Its like when Spyder puts out a "new" marker , the only thing they really did was spend a few hours on CAD making a few things up (maybe less time when you really look at them) , throw together a few models , pick one after a bit of marketing , and throw the same old parts inside of the "new" gun.

The Shocker is a new marker for SP , but it didn't have anything that someone else hadn't already worked out. Topped off by the fact that SP has much technology and experiance at their disposal. It didn't cost them near as much to throw the shocker together as it woud have for a new/small company to totally design the thing.

So now they have a manufactured gun, ready for mass production.

Beyond this, they probably go through at least 2 different companies before they are sold to the customer. Then there is advertising, cost of paying the employees to make them, etc.

[punkncat]

So now they have a manufactured gun, ready for mass production.

Beyond this, they probably go through at least 2 different companies before they are sold to the customer. Then there is advertising, cost of paying the employees to make them, etc.

Don't get me wrong. Its the American way to make money. Each person in the chain deserves to be able to make a living for what they do. But most things associated with paintball are WAY more expensive than they shoud be. Consider just slider shorts , knee pads , shoes. If you buy paintball specific items you will easily pay double , perhaps even triple , what you would for comparable softball specific equipment. Is it because the paintball stuff is better?

Its pretty easy to resolve really. Either you are willing to pay the high prices to enjoy the exciting sport , or are not and don't.

[GT]

Which sells for 1060 on paintballgear. So, an IMMENSE markup of 30%.

At 245 per marker, how many do you need to sell to stay in business? Figure one employee at $7 an hour for 40hrs a week: $280 per week.

So, considering that you have to add taxes and paperwork costs to the employment of that employee you need to sell two guns a week just to keep your one person staff. But, the store rent and heat aren't paid for yet and you need money to put more stock on the shelves.

Yea, sounds like the stores are really ripping us off.

That is what a retailer pays, not what it costs wdp to build, advertise, etc....

My personal belief is that there are money in two things: Guns and accesories.

[SlartyBartFast]

That is what a retailer pays, not what it costs wdp to build, advertise, etc....
My personal belief is that there are money in two things: Guns and accesories.

The only real money is in consumables. If a marker manufacturer could get paintballers to accept specific paint for a specific marker like ink-jet printer manufacturers do, you can be guaranteed that they'd give the markers away to make sure they sold paint.

Look, the design of ANYTHING is not just "a few hours of CAD". You have to build at least one prototype to make sure it works. Prototypes are VERY expensive.

Think about cars. It may only cost a few thousand to build a car in mass production. But, the multi-million dollar prototype and design costs have to be amortised over the expected production life of the vehicle. As do the setup and tooling costs of the factories and supply chain. Support and warranty provisions also have to be added to production costs.

So, Ninhydrin, how do you propose WDP sell their product? My simple example showed how difficult it is for the retailer to survive at the current retail markup. How do you propose WDP lowers the cost to the retailer? What in the simplistic "what it costs wdp to build, advertise, etc...." can be cut to reduce selling cost and increase sales and not instead adveresly affect sales?

To all the whiners: If someone offered you twice the market value of your current gun package would you accept, or say: "No way man, get on the internet and you can buy it there." If you take the money, you're a hypocrit.

It's like the whiners who complain about record industry profits and download music, but who would scream bloody murder if their boss ever refused to pay them for a days work with the excuse that they seem to be living comfortably and paintball, a good car, or other luxuries aren't needed so why should they pay the worker for them.

[Lohman446]

Its pretty easy to resolve really. Either you are willing to pay the high prices to enjoy the exciting sport , or are not and don't.

Funny I have full Dye gear (wearables) as well as conglomartions of others. The fact of the matter is I play more often in jeans a t-shirt (or sweatshirt) than anything else. I just don't see the big difference in Dye gear and its kind of a statement... I just wear it often enough to remind people what I wear is a choice I made. What you are discussing is the stuff you WANT to have to play the game, not what you NEED to have. And yes, I play competetive tournaments in jeans quite often... yes I play front, yes I slide hard and yes I play hard.

[UThomas]

"Is it because the paintball stuff is better? "

No, its at least partially because it is MUCH lower volume. Less volume = less opportunity to spread out fixed costs.

[spasticsquirrel]

that is at master dealer price, you need to sell atleast $16,000 of stuff to get it at that price. Normal dealer is like $915.

if you want to know about crossfire tanks, dealers only make around $5 on them.

[SlartyBartFast]

that is at master dealer price, you need to sell atleast $16,000 of stuff to get it at that price. Normal dealer is like $915.

if you want to know about crossfire tanks, dealers only make around $5 on them.

Sure sounds like EASY money.

Hey, all I got to do to make 40,000 a year is avoid paying all business related taxes and expenses and sell 160 markers. I'm sure EVERY Mom&Pop operation can manage that.

[spasticsquirrel]

my mommy is buying all of those angels for my weakend gift.

[frontrunner]

the more high tech you marker is the more the comp0any has to spend in R&D this is where alot of you money is going and i say its worth it look at how far the markers have come. i love companys like AGD because i feel the spend their R&D money in to tech where other companys dump alot in to sex appeal

[rabidchihauhau]

a couple of people made glancing blows at this aspect of cost, but didn't mention it specifically:

as a manufacturer, when pricing things out, you need to build in room for distributor pricing; that means that someone buying large volume has to be able to get it at a unit price that lets THEM sell to a dealer at a profit.

Its not mfg to street price, its mfg to distributor to dealer to street price. Everyone wants their 15 to 30%, so mfg + 30% to distributor + 30% to dealer + 30% to consumer.

This is why one (very) general rule of thumb is cost x 4 = retail price.

[Lohman446]

This is not necessarily true. If he is buying his equipment at a distributor/wholesale price rather than a retail price it could easily be that much difference in price. A standard retail markup is better than X2.5 on many products we buy.

I am sure you recognize this , running your own buisiness and all. Not any kind of dig at you specifically , but hey , most retailers are seriously sticking it to consumers. Especially in paintball.

That "standard" retail markup is much closer to 30% than 150% - Im sure there are exceptions.

I know what my local shop pays for things, and what they sell them for. Its one of the reasons I don't invest any money into a paintball store or field - frankly the markup sucks... and thats before you have every player asking for a sponsorship discount