Yet another discussion on cheating

[Lohman446]

I was watching football last week, the Green Bay game where the ball had come loose, 21 of the 22 players on the field had thought it was an incomplete pass, two players were down (hurt) on the field and there was some guy holding the ball in one hand. A Green Bay player comes up, swats it out of his hand, and takes it in for the touchdown - instant replay shows the "pass" had been a fumble, the refs had never blown the play dead, and the touchdown counted.

Today I watch players hit, obviously down by contact and the play should be over, many times the player gets up and runs until the whistle is blown, regardless of how obvious it was that he was down. I watch players constantly trying to intimidate refs.. at least to some degree. Football players used to scotch tape there jerseys to themselves to prevent holds, and holding happens on nearly every play, its just not called.

Now I know the hardline stance on wiping - but how does this relate wiping in paintball? Or equipment (non-safety/velocity) cheats? Now understand my stance on this - in regards velocity I beleive your caught intentionally cheating by PSP or NPPL you should be banned for three years, no questions about it. But what about wiping? or even shot ramping? Playing on? Discussion..

[rep]

Wiping is lame. That's why I've resorted to shooting until the guy either falls over or walks without a ref having to call it.

[Miscue]

I was watching football last week, the Green Bay game where the ball had come loose, 21 of the 22 players on the field had thought it was an incomplete pass, two players were down (hurt) on the field and there was some guy holding the ball in one hand. A Green Bay player comes up, swats it out of his hand, and takes it in for the touchdown - instant replay shows the "pass" had been a fumble, the refs had never blown the play dead, and the touchdown counted.

Today I watch players hit, obviously down by contact and the play should be over, many times the player gets up and runs until the whistle is blown, regardless of how obvious it was that he was down. I watch players constantly trying to intimidate refs.. at least to some degree. Football players used to scotch tape there jerseys to themselves to prevent holds, and holding happens on nearly every play, its just not called.

Now I know the hardline stance on wiping - but how does this relate wiping in paintball? Or equipment (non-safety/velocity) cheats? Now understand my stance on this - in regards velocity I beleive your caught intentionally cheating by PSP or NPPL you should be banned for three years, no questions about it. But what about wiping? or even shot ramping? Playing on? Discussion..

The leagues do not have the guts to do anything about it. They don't care enough to follow through with real solutions. Proof of this? These problems could have been taken care of years ago, yet they persist. The industry of paintball is a money-making bureaucracy like anything else - the sanctity of the game and the player come last.

You have to have a league run by people who actually care, and don't just act like it or say they do.

[50 cal]

Or we need a league run for the good of the game, not the good of the promoters bank account.

[FireITup14]

so many of the younger players on my field are wiping now because all the older ones with the timmies and angels are doing it. Its sad cas its just accepted and they just think its ok

[brightman]

People are going to cheat. Whatever sport you are playing you will have cheating of some sorts wether it is through steroids or some type of cheating during play. The same is true and has always been true for paintball. The thing I find disturbing is recently many players out look on cheating is changing. Six year ago when I started playing cheating was frowned upon wherever you went. The field I started paying on would put you on a paintball firing line and execute you if you where caught cheating. Within the last two years the outlook on cheating in paintball has changed drasticly. I was on a pbnation thread the other day and several players where talking about whiping and how it is no big deal. One guy ripped a another guy for posting about cheating calling him a kid and telling him to get out of his backyard and play real paintball. If I had just started playing paintball and read this thread it makes it sound like cheating is part of the game. Then you add in equipment cheats and things start to get stupid. The industry has really stepped up to fight this problem by making cheater boards stock...
So how do can slow down cheating in paintball....I really didnt see too many cheaters at my old paintball field...I say we have offical paintball firing squads that "execute" cheaters in front of everyone after getting caught.

[brightman]

posted by Aquaman_25 on PBnation....one of the many reasons why I love AO

"I'm not saying Hk, the edge, the army, or any other team are cheaters but...

...once you get to a certain level, you play by a different set of rules...you do everything you can to win, to suceed, to impress your fans and sponsers.

Theres a different set of playing morals...this isn't backyard ball anymore kid."

[hitech]

The leagues do not have the guts to do anything about it...These problems could have been taken care of years ago, yet they persist.

Also, wiping in paintball is closest to moving your ball in golf. Both are considered "honor systems".

[tsc]

Ramping is BS.

Wiping is BS.

Yelling at refs is BS.

Playing on is BS.

You'd think in a sport supported entirely by it's players (You don't see paintball spectators buying thousands of dollars worth of merchandise, do you?), and for the most part understood only by it's players...you'd see a certain level of pride in what you do, and how you show your awesomely fantastic sport to the world.

But maybe I'm an optimist.

[Enemy]

you know what sadly its become apart of the game.. just today i had my whole team playing honest against another team that spent the whole day wiping and playing on did we get pissed? no cuz it was practice and going against a team like that only helped us not hurt us for every time we failed we learned somthing new! look at it this way the only way to get rid of wiping is having a ref per player on the field now is that anywhere near cost effective? but hey the refs get what they can and you just have to bunker the wipers and sneak in a few bonus balls? then ask him why one of your shots looks like it was old! remember wiping how ever accepted is still embarassing when you get caught!

[ScatterPlot]

What paintball needs is a really rich guy to make a league that doesn't run for profit, but for the schweetness of the sport. That would be awesome. Now all we gotta do is kidnap a rich old guy to force him to play paintball...

[Tyger]

You have to have a league run by people who actually care, and don't just act like it or say they do.

Conversely, you need players who will stand up for what they want, and hit the tournament series where it hurts. "The wallet". If you make it not-profitable for these people to allow cheating, they will do what they need to in order to get your money back.

Vegas some years ago, the fields were unsafe to play on, and yet the players DID. Everyone said "this is not safe", and yet they played? Why not? Nobody had the guts to stage a walkout! Players busted ribs and ankles, and no player spoke up until AFTER the event.

Come on people. If an event is sub-standard, you have the RIGHT to say to the organiser "We refuse to play." That includes preferential reffing practices, under-enforcement of the rules (or non-enforcement), unsafe conditions, and cheating. If you can prove that teams are cheating, and the referees refuse to do anything about it, that's walkable IMHO.

If a tournament series is filled with cheaters, don't go. I always shake my head when I hear players complain about "Tournament Z" and complain it's full of cheaters, the refs suck, and so on, and yet they're gonna go back next year. I'll figure out that mentality one of these days. If an event sucked, go to another one. It's your money, invest wisely.

-Tyger

[XSSPL]

... remember wiping how ever accepted is still embarassing when you get caught!

Now that is the way I like to see it explained. Me personally, I'm too honest. The field I regularly play at is short on refs right now. A lot of times there is only one for the speedball field and one for the woods. I have been singled out as an example of how to conduct ones self when the field is short handed.

The ref was going through his spcheel about the rules, etc and expressly pointed at me and told everyone there that they were to call themselves hit in the same manner I do - if you know you got hit and you can see paint or you rub the spot and find fresh paint, then you start yelling "HIT! COMING OUT, HIT!"

I'm not tooting my own mind you as that was completely unsolicited, but people notice when you carry yourself with pride and honor. I am very often watching for barrel plugs and masks down, etc - the refs and owners appreciate that very much. I have zero interest in seeing someone get hurt and by the same token I have zero interest in seeing kids get riled up and do something stupid because someone is cheeting or appears to be cheeting.

I will come right out and say that I have my good days and I have my not so good days. Some days I absolutely dominate - got my game together, etc... and some days I get splatted repeatedly. It's the players that realize that it's not only just a game, but also one that allows you the opportunity to seek almost immediate "payback". So, what's the sense in getting all pissed off? Just get out there and play your game - everything else will work itself out.

Even in tourneys - if someone or a group of players is cheeting, play your game, if they win, so be it... they'll get their's and YOU WILL get your's... you will, I promise, you will get yours, just keep playing your game.

My game has pretty much always contained a bit of an "overshoot" method to getting eliminations... keep shooting until you know 100% that the SOB is out - leave no doubts, keep pulling the trigger, the bruises will heal

[ScatterPlot]

IMO bonus-balling is onlyh acceptable when they won't go out. I'm not saying when someone yells paint check or out or whatever you should hit them again, that's gay. When they wont go out, well, you cant wipe a welt

[White_Noise]

IMO bonus-balling is onlyh acceptable when they won't go out. I'm not saying when someone yells paint check or out or whatever you should hit them again, that's gay. When they wont go out, well, you cant wipe a welt

i agree for the most part, but if a guy calls for a paint check, and isnt smart enough to hide behing his bunker while being checked, then he's going to catch a few more balls while he's standing in front of the ref.