ASTM facts?

[ScatterPlot]

I might have missed this, but what was the velocity you used on those tests?

[manike]

My video's were at approx 290fps.

[jewie27]

Those Brass Eagle masks suck. My friend got shot twice in the lens and paint chips got into his eye from going under the lens.

[p8ntball72]

My video's were at approx 290fps.

Have you done any test videos that were over 300?

i would hope a mask that was "fresh off the line" would take an impact or 2...

In my area the only local place to get gear is at wal-mart/K-mart and most "rec" players dont maintain their "saftey gear", yet they feel its "ok" to shoot hot.

Manike, would you agree that its bad for the "sport" to shoot hot guns?

there are many "rural" towns all over that dont have commercial paintball fields, so how do you get the saftey message to these players?

[manike]

Have you done any test videos that were over 300?

Did you miss the bit about ball bearings at 750fps? But I don't have video's to show of that.

It's EXTREMELY STUPID to shoot hot guns. The velocity limit we have is determined by the legal level of 'lethal energy'.

If you are shooting hot you could be shooting someone with an amount of energy determined 'lethal'.

If you injure them... you are in far more serious trouble. And you are FAR more likely to injure someone when shooting hot.

The energy goes up with the square of the velocity. So going up from 300 to 310 is worse than going from 290 to 300.

[p8ntball72]

Thank you.
so how do I explain this to new players thats only exposure to paintball is "jackass or viva la bam"

[xXHavokXx]

While my suggestion of not playing with them still stands the evil part of me says you should buy a timmy, set the debounces low and just mow them to pieces since they have no rules

[p8ntball72]

i've got a timmy...I like my mag more.
I have not been playing with them..so i guess I suffer because they dont fallow the rules

[Blazestorm]

well im no ASTM tester...but i did have an extra pair of brass eagle goggles that were loaners.

TEST SPECS...

AUTOMAG CHRONO AT 327/330/331 WITH HANDHELD
7 ROUNDS GAP PAINT {FRESH}
2 YEAR OLD K-MART MASK WITH BRAND NEW LENS
7 SHOTS TO THE MASK AT 15 FEET AWAY 10 SEC BETWEEN SHOOTS



as you can see not only did i knock the lens out of the frame...i also broke the lens,and the mask is no longer safe or useable.

is this *PROOF* that shooting hot is not safe?

Try that with a real mask, not some POS that barely meets standards.

[xXHavokXx]

I think the profiler would do well, the force would be applied over the total egde of the mask as it is flush against the frame of the mask and not just at little tabs.

I hate those little tabs.

[magman007]

Try that with a real mask, not some POS that barely meets standards.

hmm funny how they suck. they are, or atleast were(it appears that his mask was) manufacuted by z leader who now makes.... VFORCE!!!!! also, z leader has been a large manufacturer of other sports equipment, including hockey facemasks (all clear plastic ones) etc etc. it really isnt a POS, unless ofcourse you would like to admit that your profiler is a POS

[Blazestorm]

I realize that, but what I'm saying is that they do make profilers to higher standards than their free brass eagle masks they give in 20 dollar walmart packages.

[VFX_Fenix]

The velocity limit we have is determined by the legal level of 'lethal energy'.

If you are shooting hot you could be shooting someone with an amount of energy determined 'lethal'.

Actually these velocity limits we have are derived from the energy required to break a human finger and we have Bud Orr to thank for them. It was determined that muzzle velocities of less than 300fps would deliver an impact with energy less than the energy required to break a phelange.

The lenses we use in paintball meet or excede ANSI Z87.1, ASTM F1776. I know that ANSI requires a .25" steel ballbearing shot at 102mph (a shade over 150 fps) nor a spike weighing 500g (1.1 lbs.) falling from 52" (roughly 18fps) and not compromise the lense or dislodge it from the frame. JT claims to shoot their lenses with a .25" ballbearing at 400fps and still have the thing in tact. I don't have an idea of how stringent the tests are for ASTM but I'd imagine they're a bit higher.

Anyway, sorry for digging up an old thread

[manike]

Actually these velocity limits we have are derived from the energy required to break a human finger and we have Bud Orr to thank for them. It was determined that muzzle velocities of less than 300fps would deliver an impact with energy less than the energy required to break a phelange.

The lenses we use in paintball meet or excede ANSI Z87.1, ASTM F1776. I know that ANSI requires a .25" steel ballbearing shot at 102mph (a shade over 150 fps) nor a spike weighing 500g (1.1 lbs.) falling from 52" (roughly 18fps) and not compromise the lense or dislodge it from the frame. JT claims to shoot their lenses with a .25" ballbearing at 400fps and still have the thing in tact. I don't have an idea of how stringent the tests are for ASTM but I'd imagine they're a bit higher.

Anyway, sorry for digging up an old thread

The velocity limits may have been implemented by Bud but he is NOT the one who did the tests to determined the legal energy limit.

It's a standard that has been around before Bud helped set the limit in paintball. It's used in laws all over the world to differentiate between firearms and airguns and toys.

The limit is 12ftlbs of energy. It equates to over 300fps, but in order to have a factor of safety and a nice round number 300 was settled on. There was a period of time when you were allowed to chrono guns with different calibres at different velocities.

I have the ASTM standards for goggles in front of me.

We shot Vforce lenses at 800fps with a 1/4" ball bearing and there was no penetration.

[ThePixelGuru]

The campus police at my university chrony their Pro-Carbines to 400FPS. Not sure if that's standard, but that's what they do. Anyway, they're all well above 300FPS regardless of where it is. At that speed, it's classified as a "less-lethal" weapon. It's not non-lethal anymore, and police recognize the ability of these markers to injure and kill people. Still, it's better than rubber bullets or whatever, so that's why they use them.

Anyone who chronies to above 300FPS and declares that it's still safe is a moron. Sorry to revive this topic (uh, re-revive?) but I felt that needed mentioning.