What it would take to make a mag my primary gun again

[Lohman446]

It would only take paying my field fees Cuz my mech mag is my main marker. Soon to be a DevilMag

I dont cry about these trivial things ...they are only tears of joy when those foos with their electros get beat my a mech mag

The marker doesnt make the player...skills do.

And that attitude, is why mags are stuck... Mags are great markers and for a mechanical I think it would be hard pressed to be beat. But this whole "the marker doesn't make the player" attitude is saying that the marker is competetive. A legal mag is not competetive with the super markers of today. Two players of equal skills - the one with the better marker is going to come out on top. Yeh, skill is important, but I look for whatever edge I can get. One of the best players I know shoots a mechanical mag, is it the marker that beats me... not a chance.

[Lohman446]

Fine Rogue.. Marker has nothing to do with it you do play with a pump right? - the 20 foot per second inconsistency taht seems to go with the X-valve is actually my biggest complaint about it - followed by the problematic nature of mine. I'd still own one, a great marker for its use.

When AGD as a company realizes that its not just hype anymore - there are markers that are better than the mag out there - they require less maintenance, are more consistent, will fire faster, have a better anti-chop system, can shoot further into the tank, and cost about the same (these are all opinions based on my use of different markers). Anyways, once AGD realizes that its not just hype we will get a better marker, maybe. This holding onto "the mag is as good as any marker out there" - this is true for some players - but it becomes less and less true for more and more players the more markers advance.

Yes, skill is important, more important than marker, but marker does mean something...

[hitech]

A legal mag is not competetive with the super markers of today.

It is if those "super" markers are also legal, semi-auto markers.

[Lohman446]

It is if those "super" markers are also legal, semi-auto markers.

An E-mag, with eyes, and with the ability to shoot lower in the tank maybe - the rest of what I see is astetic. My e-mag was a great marker, don't get me wrong

[hitech]

The constant opposing force of the bolt spring, is dead reliable, cheap, and inefficient.

The opposing force of the bolt spring is NOT what makes the 'mag inefficient. What makes it inefficient is that the dump chamber is still open and venting after the ball is gone from the barrel.

[GT]

I think guys are just trying to find a reason to buy what is cool and not what they really want, a mag. The only reason an E/X is "slower" than the current crop is the legal semi software.

for instance, the shootup that seems to be acceptable

Last time I checked most markers running compressed ai have shoot up. THe only company that addresses it is agd. Secondly some markers require a first shot "shoot up" because the bolts are porrly designed or selnoid doesnt have enough voltage to overcome bolt stick.


take home message
We can go back and forth about each gun on the market ahd why it is better than the other. The truth is that none buys a gun based on facts; rather what they value more, unfortanlly at this point in time it is more about BPS, bling, and having the most expensive gear.

[TheTramp]

An E-mag, with eyes, and with the ability to shoot lower in the tank maybe - the rest of what I see is astetic. My e-mag was a great marker, don't get me wrong

I agree. These are the only two changes I'd make to my E-Mag.

Break-beam eyes with the L10 as a back-up and the ability to shoot down to a tank pressure of 400psi or so.

I like the way the PTP battery pack I've got feels and looks.

[hitech]

... with the ability to shoot lower in the tank...

Isn't how many shots per tank the real issue? If you could get 2000 shots on a 68/3000 tank would you care that you couldn't shot the tank lower than 600 (or 800, or what ever)?

[Lohman446]

I think guys are just trying to find a reason to buy what is cool and not what they really want, a mag. The only reason an E/X is "slower" than the current crop is the legal semi software.
.

BS... you want to know what switched me to Shockers. I was in the shop for the third time in teh same day trying to get my level ten soft enough to not break paint, adjusting the rod on the plunger (because I had messed with it ok my fault). Trying to get LX to that point that it would reset, fire, and not break paint. It was about the third week in a row of working on the SOB marker trying to get it just right. I finally threw it back together, called it good enough... I was on the field, broke a ball, looked at the shop owner and told him to order me a Shocker. Why a Shocker? I wanted the profile of a mag, that was my first concern. Why is it still a Shocker and not a Pimp, a Timmy, a Viking - because I'm happy with it. Its about the same size and weight of my Mag - with a better anti-chop system in my experience, it shoots lower into the tank, the battery is in the grip frame. I have rebound available (not a requirment but I did switch to rebound Shockers when it became available). I will tell you that out of the box the quality control on teh Shockers sucked - I had to take them apart and remove metal shavings - one the back plate froze in and took some work to remove. Don't read into this too far, an E/X mag is not even tourney legal out of the box and the trigger is less than good stock. But since then they have been wonderful markers, the triggers are easily adjusted (my E-mag I had to give to BlackVCG to adjust the trigger - great job BTW), maintenance is simple and done once a month or so, and I have very few problems with them.

As for speed - both the E and the Shocker are extremely fast when in legal settings. The thing is the E had a tendency to barrel rise at high rates of fire, the Shocker does not to that degree.

This instant - well anything you say that makes anything better than a mag is just hype knee jerk reaction is costing AGD. Eventually you admit you did not progress as quickly as your competition, borrow some ideas from them, improve them, and make something better - its the evolution of competetition. I would like to have something else, something that is not the "in" marker to have. I don't want to have what everyone else has... I want something different. I would like to see an AGD marker that truly competes

[yakitori]

you just made me feel a lot better GT. I dont have any consistency probs w/ my mag as long as it is decent paint match.

[Lohman446]

Isn't how many shots per tank the real issue? If you could get 2000 shots on a 68/3000 tank would you care that you couldn't shot the tank lower than 600 (or 800, or what ever)?

Good question... I'll get back to you on that one. I could live with the efficiency of them, but its one of those I would always like better.

[GT]

This instant - well anything you say that makes anything better than a mag is just hype knee jerk reaction is costing AGD.

lets be real honest here. If there was any gun, from a spyder to a bling'd out timmy, that was truely better than any gun everyone would be using them, regardless of marker sponsership.

They all shoot @ 300fps, some slower, some faster, and some do it all consistantly. Everything else is just crap we tell ourselves to justify our purchase. I know its hard to swallow considering the kid with the rental m98 has just as good a gun as your $$2k timmy/matrix/borg/viking.

[hitech]

Good question... I'll get back to you on that one. I could live with the efficiency of them, but its one of those I would always like better.

????

I'm missing what you are trying to say. My example of 2000 shots from a 68/3000 tank is extremely good efficiency. I guess I was really asking if you care about performance or do you care about numbers? In other words, why would you care how far down you can shoot the tank if it is the most efficient?

[Lohman446]

????

I'm missing what you are trying to say. My example of 2000 shots from a 68/3000 tank is extremely good efficiency. I guess I was really asking if you care about performance or do you care about numbers? In other words, why would you care how far down you can shoot the tank if it is the most efficient?

If you could get me 2000 shots out of a 68/3K - with 3K being the max number for this example because almost everyone can fill to that, I wouldn't care if I could only shoot down to 1500.

Yes, IM interested in the number too - but if we are discussing the hypothetical ultra-high pressure marker that I think you may be eluding to we're dealing with something revolutionary and my other concerns may be let go

[68magOwner]

It would only take paying my field fees Cuz my mech mag is my main marker. Soon to be a DevilMag

I dont cry about these trivial things ...they are only tears of joy when those foos with their electros get beat my a mech mag

The marker doesnt make the player...skills do.

I just cant believe the "marker dosent make the player" statement, i shure as hell wouldnt want my back man shooting a pump, the ability for a back to shoot lanes and keep people in, has a lot to do with their marker.

Am i trying to argue that a good player couldnt walk on a rec ball field with ANY marker and do well? Not at all, I think in that situation, if you are good, you can win with anything. But, in the competative paintball world, bottom line is that markers do matter. Take tygers team for instance, they played amataure open if i am correct, with all pumps (mabey a blazer one game?) now, those are all skilled players, and yet, they got rolled all day because, why? their markers, there really isnt any other argument for that.

anyway, i too have become dis-interested in owning a mag as a primary.