PBX E-Frame for Mag Valve

[RetroEclipseMan]

Honestly, the mag community is pretty small and trying to sell a 1000 frames is gonna be pretty hard, espeically if people are saying they want it to be under $250. I mean when the eblade came out it was over $350 and you still had to have your cocker body tapped for eyes which is still going to have to be done on the ule bodies and I just don't seem to see a lot of people willing to shell out that kind of money when it really comes down to it.

Even if the frame was around $300 by the time you figure in all the other parts you have to get to build one of these "super" mags you're looking at the price for any other electro gun. So if this frame is going to truly successful then it should have something to make it stand apart from all the other guns out there that can shoot 20bps. And the way it is now mags, even with lvl 7 are still less efficient than most guns out today and now with guns like the Freestyle out that is just as small and light and if not lighter and just as easy to maintain I just really don't see what is going to set the mag apart.

I do see this frame having success if you guys can get it out before any of the other frames that are said to be coming out and can be way cheaper and just flat out better. Or maybe selling it as a complete gun that would compete with the '05 bushies that are out would be your guy's best bet.

Sorry for the rant, just need to get that out there.

[PBX Ronin 23]

Thanks for your comment Retro. Yours and those of the others who have posted on this thread are helping us a great deal in our evaluation.

[RetroEclipseMan]

Don't get me wrong or anything, I'd love to have an electro mag that wasn't in the form of an e-mag but for what it could possibly cost it just kind of pushed me away from mags. Same thing with the pneumatic frames that have been hyped, a year ago when DW first released that vid of his frame it got me really stoked about mags again, since I hadn't really even thought about paintball in general for like 4 months but the wait has been too long which is why I'm now moving onto the Freestyle after shooting mags exclusively for almost 5 years which is what has happened to a lot of people that used to shoot mags, the wait for a product that would not really put the mag over the top of anything else out there especially since the price would be that of any other mid-higher range electro.

[tyrion2323]

Ronin,

I suggest that PBX focuses more on evolving the mQ-mag than releasing an electro frame for the existing valves. here are the advantages:

With the mQ-Valve, you'll have:
- better efficiency
- ability to shoot further into tank
- electro-pneumatic operation and adjustability
- lower pressure (some people care about this)
- ability to incorporate Predator II boards, WAS, etc
- extremely fast valve
- inline regulator


Basically, I recommend that you focus on the mQ. I suggest making:
- Upgrade kit for existing mags [including valve and frame] for $450
- Full mQ-mag (name is something different, of course) for $700 fully stocked.
For 700 fully stocked, it would give some stiff competition to the Shocker market out there
and you would be able to separate the product from the "automag" name. Despite their
good features, 'mags will never reclaim their former reputation or glory.

Some features for the mQ-mag should be:

- one-piece body
- integrated air channel
- upgradeability (LPR, board, etc. etc.)
- vision system
- Choice of vert or 45 grip frame

If you're interested in pursuing this, I might be able to help you out with parts, etc. Hit me up at:

email = [email protected]
AIM = Kugleman

This is what I realistically see as being the best path for PBX in the 'mag market.

[mark_1791]

!!!
What he said

THAT would be REALLY cool...reliability and other mag features thats got eye and its as good as/better than shocker!!! sweeeet...

oh and i personaly dont see why low pressure matters...i mean you can make in lowER, but whats the advantage of making a super-low pressure gun???

[GodLovesUgly]

If you guys go through with this, I would buy one for s8ure assuming it works well. Thats why I would wait it out for a month or two and wait to see what others says. If people don't have any problems then I would be all over it!!!

ditto!
no need for eyes lvl 10 is good enough. looks matter, but as long as it doesn't look like the hyperframe i'd say you've got that covered.

[peewee]

I'd want to see a working model vids showing it getting put thru the paces.

[PBX Ronin 23]

Tyrio2323's point is well taken and we are indeed on that track. The purpose of this thread is for us to get a preliminary sense of what the market wants.

Mag users are some of the most loyal people out there. If it makes financial sense to enter that segment of the market, we'd like to know.

So keep on giving us your thought for they are certainly most appreciated.

[bunker17]

i think that ic ould probably move some of those frames i know a lot of people that would love to put and electro frame to their classic but 1000 could be a lot.

[PBX Ronin 23]

1,000 units is what can make sense production wise in order to keep the cost to the end users low enough. If that number cannot be moved, then it doesn't make financial sense to undertake this endeavor.

[tyrion2323]

That loyalty, PBX, is a great point. I had totally forgotten about it. I believe that if you decide to work only on the mQ-valve, you will actually increase sales. Here is my reasoning:

If you decided to focus all of your funding on mQ, then you will only have to spend time researching one product (well, two - the grip and the valve). By doing this, you will be able to produce your own marker, by itself - say, the PBX Whirlwind.

You could sell and market the Whirlwind by itself, which would give it appeal to the entire tournament and rec communities. By separating it from simply being an "upgraded automag," you will draw in the PBN crowd as well.

Aside from the Whirlwind, you could offer the "whirlwind upgrade kit" for automags, which would allow automags to operate like the whirlwind. Mag owners, I believe, would be happy to see a real, tangible step forward in performance for mags.

Since the Whirlwind would already be in production, the upgrade kit wouldn't siphon off too much money/funding from your primary project, and you would be able to offer the kits for great prices. Simply put, since you would already be making the grip frames and valves for the whirlwind, packaging them up for the 'mag wouldn't be too big of a hassle.

Of couse, then there's the matter of sending me a free whirlwind, but that's easily taken care of

Anyways, I've never produced a marker, so I may be right off, but those are my ideas. They take care of both the 'mag community and the tournament community, and since the 'mag community dominates a lot of scenario play, you're expanding tri-fold your sphere of influence.

[tyrion2323]

PBX,

If you're pursuing this, I can speak with my sponsor, AIM, about regs, unimounts, feednecks, etc. Perhaps I could broker a deal between you two.

Jacob

[spasticsquirrel]

i think there should be an option of i would like the mq valve instead.

i would vote for that

[tony3]

I personally think, just releasing the frame won't do all that good. If you released it with a deadlywind body, single color anno, electro frame, clamping feed, and some kind of foregrip or reg all for 600-800 bucks it would be do pretty good. Then again, you'd need to do some good advertising to get it selling good. If it is feasble price wise get a proto type for the next national tourney and get a booth and see how it goes over with people. I've heard those things are expensive as hell though.

[PBX Ronin 23]

We're still considering all our options.