Problem with paintball?

[Eric Cartman]

I agree with Sam on this completely. Bad reffing will turn me away from a field more quickly than anything else. I've been fortunate over the past few years to have a regular Sunday walk on for equipment owners (and any renters who want to play with the owners) to play at. Most of the people who play there are regulars and we largely police ourselves. If someone comes off of the field without a barel plug or pulls off a msak in an unsafe area, there are usually 4 or 5 players on them right away. We'll tell people on other fields in private games as well. Players very quickly learn that they can't get away with any unacceptable behaviour at this field and the ones who are a problem are asked to leave and never return. There's never any hesitation to call the cops if necessary (ie a disgruntled player shooting a ref or someone's car etc.).
Sadly I've seen far too many occasions where the ref is intimidated by the players they are supposed to be supervising. When there's no respect for the refs, things can get ugly or dangerous pretty fast. It's a difficult situation to correct as refs aren't usually very well paid so they tend to be summer students, many of whom don't have a great deal of experience with paintball.
Good fields need quality refs regardless of the fact that they can be difficult to find and keep around at low wages.

[Automaggot68]

There's a Field down here in San diego (Ramona, actually); Velocity Paintball. The Owners, Darryl and Denise run the field themselves, and they make sure everything is running smoothly. If a ref isn't doing their job, FIRED.

I can totallly relate as to what you're addressing, Its that way at Weekend Warriors, Jungle Island, etc.

[GT]

its sounds like alot of the posts deal with the difference bewteen a professionally run field v. someone whom is not used to providing good service in a service related industry.

gt

[MindJob]

The biggest problem I come across in the NY area is: Many kids that are under 18 just hanging out at the field, shooting their unearned $1k+ markers in the staging area and playing one game a day, but shooting 2 cases in the process. The other problem is kids talking a big game but then getting mowed on the field and calling anyone that beats them cheaters. I kind of miss the days when paintball was really expensive and 99% of the players and field owners were cool and honorable.

I live in NY, and I now realize that I am not imaganing things.

Paintball players used to be the coolest and most honorable group of people. I guess that was back when adults were running things.

[Kaiser Bob]

Ok, now for once i didnt read the whole thread before saying something so if i am repeating whats been said already I apologize. I think the main problem with fields that have substandard reffing is that most paintball fieldowners can't/can't afford to pay more then 6-7 dollars an hour, and thats only going to fly if you dont have bills to pay or if you are doing it on the side. That's why a large majority of the refs you see now are kids. This is definitely the case in H town as the paintball scene isnt exactly jumpin so there isnt a whole ton of money flying around for local businesses to operate. What someone really needs to do is come to Houston and build the definitive paintball field/arena, something on a huge scale, like Rexplex only more paintball focused with other sports fields just to add revenue. It would kill a bunch of little fields in the area, but it would at least consolidate all the money spent on paintball to one place and everyone could have a good time.

BTW, GT which fields were you talking about? I was at Katy Paintball a couple weeks ago because I had just happened to be driving by and noticed it. The owner seemed pretty nice and the fields looked good, but it was night so i didnt see any games. One of these days ill get a day off and join you guys.

[GT]

One of these days ill get a day off and join you guys.

Just pm whenever you want hook-up with the other hTown n00bs.

What someone really needs to do is come to Houston and build the definitive paintball field/arena,

Right next to the vans skate park. Major money over there, anyone got a couple mill I can borrow?

[PBX Ronin 23]

One of the biggest ongoing problem in Paintball has always been Human Resources....from top to bottom.

There are only so many Manikes for companies to covet. There are only so many quality Refs who will do the work at pay scales so low that you'll be hard pressed to find migrant workers to do for the same for the amount of money being offered.

[Cyberious]

I do agree. Most of the poor experiences I've had over the last 19 years of playing paintball (yep its been that long)were as a direct result of poor refs. Whether it be a missed call or allowing one of their friends to play on after a hit there have been many Paintball fields I've never gone back to. One of my local fields has refs who are too busy talking to their girlfriends to even come on the field. I used to spend lots of money there but haven't been back in 2 years. I recently played at a new field in my area where they have what I call professional refs of all ages. Most of them were seen reffing this year at World Cup. As it was my first time playing I really didn't know what to expect. At the end of the day I realized that I hadn't enjoyed a day of paintball that much in years. The refs were on top of everything. They made good calles and were quick to dissolve conflicts when they arose. The games were kept moving and were made fun by the referees creativity. I've been in tourneys where the only way to get someone called out was to light him up or goggle him otherwise the ref would ignore the hit. At Shatnerball 2 I saw some good refs and bad ones. I got lit up by some Angel toting fetus who shot me once then as I turned around with my gun in the air put another 13 into my back and side (i later counted the welts). The ref who witnessed this immediately stamped his card and told him that if he saw something like that again he was out for good. I felt that was a fair call by the ref. And I appreciated that he was on top of the situation. At the same time I saw refs allowing players from the other team to re-insert behind our side in the final battle. When some of us complained they checked our markers (without allowing us to see the velocity) and said we were shooting hot. That soured me a bit on the experience. I guess you take the good with the bad but I would really like to see some minimums established for being able to work as a ref.

[Jeffy-CanCon]

As much as I am sometimes annoyed by the behaviour of know-nothing younger players, I know they are not the real problem. A lot of older and/or more experienced players have not set good examples, or been helpful in the development of newer/younger paintballers. And as several people have pointed out, the attitude the field owners have towards safety and good behaviour (an attitude almost invariably passed on to their staff) is paramount. We've all played at some beautiful fields that were poorly run, and vice-versa. As concerned customers we need to make our wishes known to the owners, and to vote with our dollars when necessary.

Personally, I always wonder why so few people will name a location where they had a bad experience. Everyone seems eager to identify a good field. I think we would all benefit if we knew which fields people had problems with. Like a "trader feedback" forum, for fields.

[nerobro]

We can't place the blame on any one point, or person. The field owners need to hire good refs. Young refs frequently don't care enough about the job. Refs aren't (generally speaking) paid enough to care. Players never see any punnishments really dolled out. And the worst part is a jackhole can just move to another field the next weekend. Or even the next day. (note my earlier comment about a governing body)

WE need a governing body. I would glady pay an extra $5 a day to make sure true loosers never return to the sport.

We also need a stock gun. Not all guns being the same. But a set of rules within which a gun must preform.

But I'm jsust reiterating myself. The whole sport is screwed from the bottom up. Field owners are no longer players running a field becuase they love it. They are buisness people trying to make the highest profit margin they can. Same goes for companys like smart parts. Even the players are trying to find the highest profit ratio. (note blazestorms story)

SP is gone, WGP is sliding, AGD, AKA, Palmers... still have the magic. And look at the following they garner.

I wish thinking people were a higher precentage of the populous. If they were we'd have a chance at making the sport what it once was.

Okey, I'm jaded, and upset. I think I'm done with this thead.

[NukeGoose]

Here's what it boils down to:

$$$$

Sure, for most of the people here (who are more mature, on average, than most other paintball message board members, and more mature than most paintballers in general), it's worth the extra $5 added onto the field fee to hire good referees and to have enough refs per field. However, when you're starting out and considering where to go for the first time, you're not going to know enough to ask how many referees the field has per field, or how experienced the referees are, or etc. If I was playing for the first time, and one field said that they had a $5 field fee and one said that the fee was $10, guess which one I (and almost all other first-time players) would go to? The cheaper one, because price is always the deciding factor when you don't know anything else about the two options. The place with the worse referees will probably not have as much long-term repeat business, but most of the money is brought into the field by the birthday/church groups and the kids who play once a month or every other month.

[Jeffy-CanCon]

...
WE need a governing body. I would glady pay an extra $5 a day to make sure true loosers never return to the sport.

We also need a stock gun. Not all guns being the same. But a set of rules within which a gun must preform.
...

Paintball needs a governing body only for competitive play. Not for recreational play. Same for a "stock" marker.

Since most paintballers never play competitive/tourney, most would not be willing to pay extra. I have found that the best way to play is with people you know and trust, and who want to play the same style of game you do. Paintball jerks don't bother me much, since I almost never play with them.

[Kaiser Bob]

Field owners are no longer players running a field becuase they love it. They are buisness people trying to make the highest profit margin they can.

More often I see the guy that is trying to make a business out of what they love and just trying to make ends meet the best they can. Field owners making money hand over fist seem to be a minority, they of course have no excuse to not do what they can to make their fields player friendly

[SlartyBartFast]

one field said that they had a $5 field fee and one said that the fee was $10

I WISH! The indoor field I last played at was $35 whether you had your own equipment or not.

The group I was with brought their own paint ($42/case) and had some agreement with the owner to do so. Normal prices are: $200/case.

Not sure I liked the place or the group.

And I wondre why I don't play much.

You do have a point that first time choice is by price. But there are other ways to compete and attract customers. One of those is outstanding service.

But, you can't rag on field owners and refs too much. It's VERY difficult to run a paintball field even if you're just doing it for the love of the game.

$7 * two employees for 4 hours means: $56 just for salaries. Then you have to pay taxes, insurance, equipment, rent.....

[PBX Ronin 23]

Move to NJ and pay $25 with air all day and $40 for a case of paint. That's the cost we normally charge at PBX Battlezone.