Why Did AGD Design the Automag with a Built in Regulator

[Conversekidz]

[QUOTE=shorty24][QUOTE=Conversekidz]a mag that already weights a ton

Mags don't necessarily weigh a ton anymore, though - thanx to ULE and other things... :)

ULE is new, my first mag was bought 9 years ago

[Muzikman]

Well tuned pump guns did a fantastic job of regulating the velocity over a wide range of pressures. Unfortunately thats now a forgotten art.

AGD

Not true, it is an art still handled by Glenn. The Phantom also does a great job.

[Muzikman]

What I don't get is how out of all the paintball industry, there have been only four popularized designs: hammer-struck valve with assist (autococker, intimidator, ego, angel, etc), hammer-struck valve with blowback (tippmann, spyder, clones), spool valve (shocker, matrix), and blow forward (mag, freestyle). There's got to be better or more efficient ways of valving air, but nobody's invented them yet.

I am sure you are right, there has to be a different design and someone will find it. Although not really new, the spool valve is the hot thing. Once they get all the performance possible out of it, someone will work on something else.

If you think about it though. The hammer valve was dreamed up or so many years ago and has been used for decades in the air (pellet/bb) industry. The spool valve was taken from the pneumatic tool and hydrolic world, the heart of a blowback is just just a hammer valve design, they just use the extra air to recock the gun, the blow forward...I am not sure of any other industry to use the system. I am sure there is one, but I can't think of it.

[Tunaman]

Not quite. But it's pretty fast :)

Not many mag users have inline regs. They don't need to because it's built right into the gun. See, one less thing you need to buy! It makes perfect sense.

"Not quite"? It is, and has always been the fastest recharging valve on the market. If you believe you know of a faster one please do us all a favor and show us the data proving it. Tom already has...

[phantomhitman]

on a related note, can the reg be taken off, and the air ran through the body? I would love to use a normal reg (foregrip) so i can get rid of that annoying macroline. yes yes, i kow about teh venom hardlines and knockoffs, i want a celaner look.

[FSU_Paintball]

"Not quite"? It is, and has always been the fastest recharging valve on the market. If you believe you know of a faster one please do us all a favor and show us the data proving it. Tom already has...

AKA 2-Liter. Faster and more consistent if I recall correctly. Of course, it took AWHILE for that to come out, and the Mag has been around forever.

[FSU_Paintball]

What I don't get is how out of all the paintball industry, there have been only four popularized designs: hammer-struck valve with assist (autococker, intimidator, ego, angel, etc), hammer-struck valve with blowback (tippmann, spyder, clones), spool valve (shocker, matrix), and blow forward (mag, freestyle). There's got to be better or more efficient ways of valving air, but nobody's invented them yet.

Go to the electronic cocker forum on PBN, check out the mQ-valve thread. New electronically controlled valve design!!! No hammer, no spool valve. Looks fantastic too.

[Athius]

What most of you fail to comprehend is that all the hammer valve guns (angel, timmy, cocker etc) have a regulator built into the body. The front reg is just for entertainment. The hammer valve actually does the final regulation of the air pressure hitting the ball. Problem is you can't charge 100 bucks for a hyped up valve stem.

We were the first to use on board regs, everyone else added it on later even though they were using the hammer valve for regulation. Well tuned pump guns did a fantastic job of regulating the velocity over a wide range of pressures. Unfortunately thats now a forgotten art.

AGD

But Tom what if the hpr in the back of an automag is changed into a LPR and then a front grip as a HPR?


I have always wonder allot about that.

[FSU_Paintball]

The 2-liter is a valve? Thats news to me...

The original statement was "Not to mention it's the fastest recharging reg in the world (the RT valves), and it's 10 years old."

I think someone mistook my response to that to be talking about the valve, while I was still talking about the reg.

And if we're talking valves, I think recharge isn't something that people look at since it's more of a flow rate thing... full BPS capable cycles is what's important. And the mQ-valve appears to have the RT beaten there.

[Spartan X]

What most of you fail to comprehend is that all the hammer valve guns (angel, timmy, cocker etc) have a regulator built into the body. The front reg is just for entertainment. The hammer valve actually does the final regulation of the air pressure hitting the ball. Problem is you can't charge 100 bucks for a hyped up valve stem.

We were the first to use on board regs, everyone else added it on later even though they were using the hammer valve for regulation. Well tuned pump guns did a fantastic job of regulating the velocity over a wide range of pressures. Unfortunately thats now a forgotten art.

AGD

It's all about those Evil Pistons Tom...

[shatter_storm]

But Tom what if the hpr in the back of an automag is changed into a LPR and then a front grip as a HPR?


I have always wonder allot about that.

The mag requires higher pressures in order to valve itself properly. Having a HPR on the grip and a LPR in the valve proper would result in a completely nonfunctional marker. If you swapped the bolt spring out for a much lighter one, it may cycle but I believe the velocity would be useless. The dump chamber is designed to use a certain amount of air at a certain pressure, if you lower the pressure you raise the volume requirements, which doesn't work in a 'mag.

Why change what works perfectly anyways? Almost everyone else uses a HPR for their valving and a LPR for their pneumatic control, but does that mean AGD needs to?

[shatter_storm]

The 2-liter is a valve? Thats news to me...

Technically, regulators must have valves in them. Instead of an external force (hammer+spring, hammer+ram, solenoid, etc) acting upon the valve and opening it, a regulator has a spring acting against the air pressure. When the pressure drops, the valve opens and increases the pressure. 'Course, you knew that already. :)

It's kinda like comparing apples to oranges, though. The 2-liter is designed to regulate air, yes. The RT valve is designed to cycle a paintball marker.
Comparing recharge rate and # of cycles per second isn't really valid.

[BlackVCG]

It's the same concept as the automotive industry's use of the piston driven internal combustion engine (ICE). It's a design that works and works well. All the paintball gun designs out there are fundamentally the same. You can refine the systems, just like the automotive industry has done to the ICE but essentially there's only so many ways to do the same task. Unless the concept of paintball gun operation changes by means of a different power source, you'll see the same fundamental designs in all the guns.

But you *can* charge $30 for a hyped up higher-flow valve assembly ex: cockers. The higher flow valves actually do something though...

What I don't get is how out of all the paintball industry, there have been only four popularized designs: hammer-struck valve with assist (autococker, intimidator, ego, angel, etc), hammer-struck valve with blowback (tippmann, spyder, clones), spool valve (shocker, matrix), and blow forward (mag, freestyle). There's got to be better or more efficient ways of valving air, but nobody's invented them yet.

[minimag03]

Also, one of the main things AGD wanted to do with the Automag was to make is "pistol size". If they had a reg up front then it just made the entire marker larger.

[GT]

It's the same concept as the automotive industry's use of the piston driven internal combustion engine (ICE). It's a design that works and works well. All the paintball gun designs out there are fundamentally the same. You can refine the systems, just like the automotive industry has done to the ICE but essentially there's only so many ways to do the same task. Unless the concept of paintball gun operation changes by means of a different power source, you'll see the same fundamental designs in all the guns.

ture but,
you dont want to be the only guy driving a rotary to the field,