Rouge mag Or Ion

[Glickman]

the two that my local shop got both went back with issues right out of the box.

so why is it only the ions that go to the shops have problems?


i havent seen 1 person with an out of the box problem that wasnt fixed with reading the manual...

[ultralight]

before you read the rest of this you should know that while i do not agree with smart part's buisness practices, the following (except for the last part) is not affected by my preference toward agd. i am merely comparing the two products in the role of backup marker.

i personally would rather have the mag. heres why:

the ion is a new smart parts product. as anyone who pays attention knows, new smart parts products need at least six months to work out all of the bugs. this means that the early versions of this marker may prove unreliable when you need it. not usually a desired quality in a backup.

the ion is electronic. this means that if your primary went down due to rain complications you can probably guess what will happen to your backup. also (i'm assuming that your primary is electronic) if you forgot to charge your primary, what are the chances that you charged your backup?

also, the ion is made in taiwan. i don't know about you but i try to buy american for all of my larger purchases. this is just my personal preference.

the automag has proven it's reliability (especially as a backup) for over ten years. the rt variants are among the fastest firing markers, if not the fastest on the planet. the automag, especially those from rogue, can be extremely lightweight and well balanced.

the automag is 100% mechanical. this is a big plus for a backup. it means that if you do encounter a problem on the field you can probably fix it within minutes.

and finally, airgun designs has the best tech support and maintenance crews in the buisness. period. do you ever see the owner of smart parts personally answering questions from customers?

and by the way. YOU ARE NEW HERE, SO THIS WILL BE ONLY A WARNING THIS TIME. DO NOT CUSS, DO NOT CIRCUMVENT THE CUSS FILTER, RE-READ THE RULES---WE ENFORCE THEM ON AO...ARMY smart parts. they care nothing for the future of the sport and have no love of anything but their precious bottom line. thats why their markers are now made in taiwan and why they are threatening lawsuits when other innovators chose not to patent their ideas for the good of the sport..

Except for the fact that the ION has breakbeam eyes, shoots 17BPS, and can actually shoot the whole tank?
I hate to say support SP, but It IS a better deal.

the mag doesn't need eyes, is capable of 26bps (has been clocked around 32bps) , and never needs batteries. you can also clean it by airing it up and tossing it in a bucket of water.

[CaliMagFan]

buy the Ion or a Wrath.. you can get 2 for the price of one mag with similar performance. And you that say the mag will do 26 bps, and maybe 32, try to shoot that fast at a field and you'll get kicked out faster than you can say, "should have bought SP!" ... not to mention getting laughed at by chrono refs in tournies.

I love my mag, and last weekend i put my wrath down for half a day to go back to it. But in the end you're talking about more gun for half the price... go with the Ion and buy yourself 4 cases of paint extra with the $200 you saved, cause with the Ion or wrath you'll be capable of shooting that much faster that with any "legal" mag.

-kyro

[ultralight]

buy the Ion or a Wrath.. you can get 2 for the price of one mag with similar performance. And you that say the mag will do 26 bps, and maybe 32, try to shoot that fast at a field and you'll get kicked out faster than you can say, "should have bought SP!" ... not to mention getting laughed at by chrono refs in tournies.

I love my mag, and last weekend i put my wrath down for half a day to go back to it. But in the end you're talking about more gun for half the price... go with the Ion and buy yourself 4 cases of paint extra with the $200 you saved, cause with the Ion or wrath you'll be capable of shooting that much faster that with any "legal" mag.

-kyro

not saying that you would or even should shoot at 26 or 32. i was simply pointing out that the ion doesn't have a speed advantage over a mag. and if you look you can find great deals on automags. i picked up a factory assembled tac one with ult installed in pristine condition for $320.
i picked up another x valved mag for $290, they are out there and relatively easy to find. imo if you are relying on an electro as your primary it is wise to avoid "putting all of your eggs in one basket" by having a mechanical backup.
then again i'm a big fan of reliability... i started with a vm68.

[TMAXXKING1]

mag

i say mag...

1. rogue killer product he stands behind aswell as anyone that owns his product's
2. agd stands behind there product
3.you know it will be reliable
4. cocker threads a plus for almost any person with another gun with cocker threads
5. value of the dollor there will always be a place for a mag whole or in parts..
6. made in america

why i say no to ion

1. they stole the name from a lame car made by GM
2. like any other smart parts product there will be some problems for the first run
3. seems to be alot of plastic ..
4. what value will it have after you use it once
5. 5 times you have packed and shipped it back to sp you could have bought 1 mag and had an awesome marker from the start...



if you choose the ion ..
i hope you get nice thick box to ship it back to sp in ..
and i hope you like stickers .. that box will have more stickers then 10 greatful dead head's
guitar cases ...

[Army]

2. like any other smart parts product there will be some problems for the first run
3. seems to be alot of plastic ..

The only plastic is the removable/exchangable "exoskeleton" that surrounds the aluminum chassis.

Any new marker from any company will have its share of teething problems, not a valid point.


...and I think the Ion is made by Saturn

[Glickman]

the mag doesn't need eyes, is capable of 26bps (has been clocked around 32bps) , and never needs batteries. you can also clean it by airing it up and tossing it in a bucket of water.

so everyones gonna get away with having it on super bouncy full auto?

how many people you think get it past 15?


any gun is capable of 26, doesnt mean its feasable by its mechanical point of view...

they care nothing for the future of the sport and have no love of anything but their precious bottom line. thats why their markers are now made in taiwan and why they are threatening lawsuits when other innovators chose not to patent their ideas for the good of the sport..

edit: im not even going to bother commenting on this, all im going to say is to check the developments with wdp

[peewee]

Went to the shop last night to get some macro line etc & to find out what was wrong with the ions. The owner had no clue as to what I was talking about. The kid that I spoke with & his buddy bought them at employee discount!!!! They had them stashed so that they wouldnt get bought. Owner isnt to happy with the kid. Owner said that the guns were flawless out of the box. I guess that I can take solace in the fact that they were not a color that I'd have liked. He said it will be three weeks before he can get any more in. Personally My vote still goes for the mag!!!! There is some prestige that goes with owning a sweet mag. Didnt get any respect a couple years ago but as of late getting lots of compliments etc. Every one & thier dog is going to have an ion...

[Miscue]

Ion is a World-Beater. Ridiculous marker for the price. It costs... "how much?" was my first thought. I've recommended it to co-workers looking for a starter setup for their kids. Typically I frown on anything SP. But I can't ignore a solid marker for such a great price, regardless of who makes it. It's the only product that I would buy from SP, if I wasn't already stocked up on AGD markers. A few months ago, if someone asked what they could get for $300 - I'd say "garbage." Not anymore.

What's going to be interesting, is the type of stuff that's going to show up for around $300. Paintball is going to be more affordable, especially for beginners... you won't need a $1200 marker to compete, the performance difference is becoming marginal.

I still think the RT/Pro - EMag are better markers. But you can't buy a mechanical RT/Pro new, for the price of these electros with eyes, rebounding cheese mode, etc. that seem to operate peachy keen from what I've seen so far.

[CaliMagFan]

1. they stole the name from a lame car made by GM

and the automag stole its name from... a gun....
so which is the closer call? Bullet GUN and paintball GUN
or Car and paintball gun...

i'm thinking its the former,

and of course thats no reason to take one product over the other, but you seemed to need a nudge to remember all the facts.

-kyro

[FSU_Paintball]

It's nothing new, per say, just more marketing hype. I'm NOT saying the Ion is no good, after all, it's Daddy is the proven and popular Shocker. I am saying that the Ion has nothing new over any Automag in performance.

Yes it does, speed and weight. And speed is VERY important depending what style you play.

If you play with some buddies or at fields that don't have many upper-end electros you can get the Mag. Otherwise you're MUCH better off getting an electro - period.

It depends what you want and where you play, but non-electro mags just don't cut it these days on the speedball field.

Get an Ion.

This isn't exactly a non-biased place to ask, ya know? Why don't you go to a general paintball forum and ask the question?

Of course, I already know what they'll say - Ion. Partially because AGD is "out of style" and the Ion is in, and partially because the mag just can't compete with an Ion.

I'm probably gonna get blasted for this one. But oh well. I know I'm right. Speed matters these days, and don't listen to those who say otherwise. Speed is an advantage, and you should take any (legal) advantage you can get. If one gun gives you an advantage over another, you better believe I'll be using it.

[Army]

also, the ion is made in taiwan. i don't know about you but i try to buy american for all of my larger purchases. this is just my personal preference.

The marker is all American made, only the polymer exoskeleton is foreign made.

Facts work much better in a discussion.

[TheTramp]

Will the marker function without the exoskeleton?

I know that the exoskeleton keeps the eyes in place but I'm sure you could fasion something to do the same job.

[TheTramp]

I have yet to see an Ion.

I wonder if there is more to it than just the eyes. Otherwise, why would the marker need disassembly to change out the exoskeleton?

I really don't know. I just say the pictures that explained how the eyes are held in place by the "body" and that's why you couldn't just play with it off.

[Lohman446]

Will the marker function without the exoskeleton?

Yes it will - though it does hold the eyes on and help them reflect - eye function will be questionable without it. The way the shell fits to the body is why marker dissassembly is needed to replace the shell. Aside from looks, and holding the eyes in place, it has no function I can see

If you are making the shell made in Taiwan (I dont know that, taking at face value) a determining factor whether it is American made. Chysler claims many of there vehicles American assembled when they are 49.XXX assembled south of the border. These include very important components - like the engine...

I already noted that in this case I thought the mag was a better marker for this use btw. but do not discount the Ion either.

The Ion is, for 99% of the people who play, capable of firing, in legal modes and semi-auto faster than the mag is.

Breakbeam eyes, to me, are much better than level ten - I hated level ten and to me its effectiveness in playing was questionable. PS - I don't have to "set-up" or tune break beam eyes. Not to mention that proactive solution is generally better and faster than a reactive one, and is, if nothing else, faster in this case.

The Ions, at least the ones I have seen and had reports of, have been remarkably better quality and function than I would have expected. Though if I recall the manual (and Im not sure) there was something about left handed threading used in part of the marker - thats going to create parts sales.

Mag pluses
First off, I am not going to discuss this as a LX X-valved mag. I think if your using it solely as a backup marker this is a mistake. LX requires too much tuning to be the old reliable workhorse marker that the classic was. You also have possible chrono issues with refs. Let me instead consider here a classic valved marker with whatever frame you choose.

1) Reliable - classic valve mag, don't use it for two years, leave it to be beat up in your gear bag, pull it out, drop oil in the ASA, screw in the tank and chrono, you should be good to go. If you go with a marker with LX through this out the window IMHO. LX is great, but you give up reliability for it (to me).
2) No batteries - if its raining like mad, no worries in using it
3) With forcefed feedsystems LX may not be needed - after all it is unlikely on a mechanical you outshoot the HALO. Besides with a classic valve 12 or so BPS is all you can expect, enough for a backup marker.

Shortcoming
1) If you are able to shoot over 15BPS you have no way of limiting yourself to be within current PSP rules

Ion pluses - nothing about design here, looks, etc.
1) Its the "in" thing, or is looking to be
2) Breakbeam eyes
3) Firing modes - if legal (PSP code)
4) Spool valve, lower pressure operation (can shoot deeper into the tank)
5) There are about 200 other rea$on$ - I bet you can think of them

Shortcomings
1) Longevity and durability are still in the air - looking at the relatively simplistic mechanical and electrical nature of this marker I expect most people to be happily surprised.
2) Need for Shocker lube, do not know how long it can sit around and still be "ready"
3) Electronic. Why did your other marker fail? Was it rain and mud related? I don't see the Ion being as impervious to water as some other electronic markers have proven to be - has not been tested yet