The ION and its effect on resale....

[Baby Huey]

re

Good point on timeline. The Ion appears to be very well tested. However, I will note that there is nothing new idea wise on it - the spool valve is minially different from what I can tell from the Shocker and the electronics are very simplistic in nature. I think it could have been reasonably quickly thrown together, but I do see your point in that too, it would have been an effort.

I dont know very much about the internals. I have my uped Shocker and then I just ordered the RPG Paradigm. That is my only experience w/ the guns. I cannot wait for the Paradigm to get here. I have heard great things about the mags. I am sure that you are all correct about the upgrades. I bought my Shocker thinking, great I have a higher end gun now I am all set, then, feedneck, detents, grips, drop, snatch grip, ASA w/gauge, trigger, board, different hopper to keep up. I am sure that the ION will be the same way. Take care.

Baby Huey

[DiRTyBuNNy]

I actually spoke with someone at Smart Part at the LA Open a few weeks back and they told me this about the Ion's design. We all know that the shocker took forever and a day to come out. The real reason for the delay was that SP had come up with a design but couldn't get the gun up to their "standards" (i.e. it wasn't fast enough). They went back to the drawing board redesigning the whole gun...what came out of those design sessions was the "new" shocker that we all know and love. SP had shelved the original "new" shocker design but later they found a way to make the gun faster (it now tops out at 17) and brought it out at a low price point....he might be pulling the whole story out of his behind...but that's what I was told (I don't remember his name...he's the old gray-haired guy that works for SP)

[Baby Huey]

Ion

If thats true info then the ION should be a great gun. If it met all the standards except the speed then it should be great, just capped at 17. Thanks for the story.

[slade]

seriously....

a viking is twice as effecient? i heard they were good, but i get 12-1300 shots off a 68/45, will a viking really get over a whole case on one fill?

yes.

What's next
Custom upgrades and custom Ions are coming - allowing the Ion to compete with nearly anything out there in the ways it doesn't (I beleive funcitonally it already does)
SP will have a large share of the low and mid price range marker sales. The Nerve still will not sell against the DM.X but it doesn't matter.

i see some new cheap custom shells coming out, and maybe a few upgrades, but not much besides that. its a low end gun. how many people really dump $500 into their spyder? a few do, but most sell it and buy a higher end marker.

[Lohman446]

yes.


i see some new cheap custom shells coming out, and maybe a few upgrades, but not much besides that. its a low end gun. how many people really dump $500 into their spyder? a few do, but most sell it and buy a higher end marker.

How many people dumped $500 into Imps - this is not a Spyder boys, its above the $200 tag line and its made by SP. How many $800+ Imps are out there (Adreneline, Strange, Rat, etc.)? A lot.

I question how low end it is - I have played with it on tournament practice days and not felt overly outgunned. Its cheap, theres no doubt about that

There are two lines of thought on the Ion - one that it is a cheap entry level marker with no place in the "real" tournament scene. The other that it is cheap and fully capable of keeping up with anything. I think the truth lies somewhere in between.

[Cameo]

Someone mentioned that the dealers would be making a nice profit off of the IONs. What is considered a good profit. I was speaking with a dealer from my local area who was talking about fronting a team for IAO with all IONs. He said you could not beat the $225 dealer price for a nice elctro like that. So according to everyone here they are retailing for $300, that is only a $75 profit for dealers. To me that does not seem like a nice profit.

Seriously, I had to decline the offer to play on this particular perswons team of IONs (even if he does "need" a female player for the mix) I am still against SP, and it does not matter that they are virtually made in my back yard.

[NoLifeLeft]

I remember hearing that the first gen. "new" shocker had to be redesigned into what is on the market now because SP tried to make the new shocker fire from a closed bolt. This didn't work too well without making another dual-noid-shoebox so the "SFT" was created. If I remember correctly, the first ads and releases for the "new" shocker still referred to it as a closed bolt marker. That would also explain the huge delay. Anyone else hear this story?

[Lohman446]

Someone mentioned that the dealers would be making a nice profit off of the IONs. What is considered a good profit. I was speaking with a dealer from my local area who was talking about fronting a team for IAO with all IONs. He said you could not beat the $225 dealer price for a nice elctro like that. So according to everyone here they are retailing for $300, that is only a $75 profit for dealers. To me that does not seem like a nice profit.

Seriously, I had to decline the offer to play on this particular perswons team of IONs (even if he does "need" a female player for the mix) I am still against SP, and it does not matter that they are virtually made in my back yard.

$75 dollars in profit on a $225 investment is a ROI of 33%. Under standard business models that is well within the acceptable range. Consider the paintball model specifically and the ROI on most markers and it becomes exceptional.

[Lohman446]

I remember hearing that the first gen. "new" shocker had to be redesigned into what is on the market now because SP tried to make the new shocker fire from a closed bolt. This didn't work too well without making another dual-noid-shoebox so the "SFT" was created. If I remember correctly, the first ads and releases for the "new" shocker still referred to it as a closed bolt marker. That would also explain the huge delay. Anyone else hear this story?

SP, as far as I recall always said the Shocker FIRED like a closed bolt marker because of the seal on the front of the bolt sealing the breech area. Technically there right. ALL markers fire with the trajectory of a closed bolt marker because it makes no difference. There reasoning on why it fired like a closed bolt marker is wrong but it made for some good hype for them I guess.

[Lohman446]

Not within the consumer retail business model.

The only business models that historically survive on 20-30% margins are high volume retail outlets such as Wal-Mart or Costco.

Besides, to figure out true ROI you must factor in the other costs involved(ie overhead, and not just the cost of the marker).

Once you figure out what the accurate ROI is, that 33% ROI isnt quite as exceptional anymore

I called it acceptable, not exceptional . Look at most paintball markers though - the $900 marker that the dealer makes $100 on sucks as far as mark-up. If I recall my retail classes correctly 30% mark-up was considered acceptable, and many had proven to be profitable under that figure.

Granted there are things you can make more on, but as far as markers go I think its reasonable. I likely used ROI incorrectly without other considerations, but the markup is reasonable.

[Rinaldo]

I called it acceptable, not exceptional . Look at most paintball markers though - the $900 marker that the dealer makes $100 on sucks as far as mark-up. If I recall my retail classes correctly 30% mark-up was considered acceptable, and many had proven to be profitable under that figure.

Granted there are things you can make more on, but as far as markers go I think its reasonable. I likely used ROI incorrectly without other considerations, but the markup is reasonable.

The point shouldn't be whether there's a ROI. If they make $1 off each Ion after Overhead their's an ROI. It should be whether the marker is priced efficiently. You are all right, a $1200 marker with a profit after sale of $1-300 in a proshop that probably gets 100 kids a day visiting the store isn't going to be cost productive/efficient. But Now place 50 Ions which he generates 75 on that cost 280 a piece and he sells them all in a weekend or two... now how can he complain.

On this note, anyone want to run a proshop online for me I want to start buying paint and selling it basically at cost. I hate seing kids not play PB because they can't afford paint prices and although I get paint at cost I'd like to see everyone that wants to do so also.

[phantomhitman]

i hope they affect resale on everything. dye is killing me with their overpriced, overhyped, but so cool look at me products. my name is joe, and i am a dye whore....

[Baby Huey]

New Gun

Hey RogueFactor, I cannot wait for my new RPG Paradigm. Off topic, sorry.

[SlartyBartFast]

On this note, anyone want to run a proshop online for me I want to start buying paint and selling it basically at cost. I hate seing kids not play PB because they can't afford paint prices and although I get paint at cost I'd like to see everyone that wants to do so also.

Ahh. Someone who doesn't understand economics.

If you only sell at cost, how are you going to cover expenses such as financing current stock, covering shipping losses, covering bad payers?

And that's assuming that you're storing any stock in your own house (and pretending that's free) and have free hosting and volunteers doing all sales follow-up.

Good luck Rinaldo...

But, I think you'll find a number of on-line retailers have already brought prices about as close to "cost" as economically feasible.

[UTDragun]

sp makes a lower lvl marker everyone barks about. angel makes the fastest pb gun ever with a huge price when almost everything is capped at 15.
...like any hopper could feed 61bps