Superbolt Update #2

[kilaueakid]

I don't know much about the manufacturing process of delrin, but is it possible that a mixture or process was changed from batch to batch? I find it odd that there is only a few isolated cases out of the couple hundred that were made/sold/tested. Also, has there been any reports of broken superbolts that are stock on the SFL's? I would assume this batch was made prior to the sb's that are having the problems.

I think you were really onto something with the SB, and would hate to see this product tossed on the shelf or in the garbage. I would think that using an aluminum sleeve will put more weight on it basically nulling out the main reason it was designed. I do know for a fact that dozens of people have commented on the recoil difference in a more than positive way.

Would it be possible to attach the delrin in a difffernt way? Possibly with female threads at the base of the sleeve and male threads on the metal inards of the bolt?

Could the broken bolt that was given to Butterscotch Yo broke because the face was drilled out for placement of a foamy? I would think that would weaken the structure of the sleeve.

How many people actually re-adjusted the velocity and re-chrono'd directly after installing the new superbolt? I would venture to guess alot of people just slapped it in and tested it out in there backyard, field, whatever. If it typically makes the gun shoot 30 fps faster than a stock bolt, 330-350 fps could lead to alot of ball breakage......just a thought.


You could always just sell the sleeves and bolts for those who want to risk the sleeve cracking. Hell, angel ball detents get chewed up fairly often, and you don't see WDP giving those things away for free. Last time I check it was close to 20-25 bucks for a 3-pack.

I know it must be a tough decision to make....but in the end, we all know you will do the right thing.

Peace,

Kila

[HyperSnyper]

Titanium Bolt?


-Hyper

[manike]

I'm with blackVCG and the guys who are interested in the aluminIum bolt. How much extra would that weigh? What would the perceived performance differences be? Maybe an aluminium sleeve wouldn't need to be as 'solid' as a delrin one so you could remove weight a little from inside it.

Having shot guns with the superbolt I do think it has a major change on the perception of how the gun feels. I would try to find a solution. It may be that the solution won't be as major a change as the delrin bolt but it is worth the improvement in feel. My opinion.

manike

[BlueMagRT]

i am with every one else aluminum is good and i like the threaded sleeve idea. maybe if AGD just concentrates on something else for a little will a solution with appear. has worked before and i am itching to get my hands on a new extreme mag.

[tremis]

I like the idea of the superbolt even though I have yet to get one ( I'm kinda lazy) Back in the day, I used the Venom bolt and other than having to change to a different power tube spacer, I didnt have any problems with it. It weighed a lot less and the recoil felt different. Its a shame I sold that bolt with the mag it was in. I had intended to get a superbolt and as long as the bolt and replacement sleeves are available, I still intend to get one. I, myself, can wait if you put them on the back burner for a bit, but I hope you dont abandon the idea.

Tremis

[Dubstar112]

yes, i think the alumnium idea is good...

[Hysperion]

I've got an SFL emag and although I've only shot 1000 rounds through it, I think the bolt actually did help in terms of recoil compared to my RT Pro. I did break a few balls in electro mode even though I was playing indoor and my FPS was around 235-240. And trust me it wasn't the bolt I was worried about, after about 400 rounds of shooting electronic the electronics went dead. I checked out the board and it doesn't look burnt. I thought maybe the trigger was out of range so tried that. Tried my friends battery, examined the leads. But the damn thing won't power up. That's real dissappointing for first use of a $1450 gun (with boomie, flatline, dropzone, halo (waiting on modular warp left!!! ).........Anyways my point is an ALUMINUM BOLT FOR AN ALUMINUM GUN SOUNDS FINE TO ME AS LONG AS ITS DURABLE AND DEPENDABLE!

[Dave]

Well Tom, it's sad to hear but I think there is hope. I would say walk away from it for a little while and put it down, work on other things, and while you do, perhaps you may get an idea of the solution for them. Also, could it have just been a really bad batch of delrin from wherever the source was? That may be a very real possibility, although I do not know about where or by who they are made. Kinda like how PMI Premium had a bad batch a while back, maybe there was a structural prob w/ the delrin to begin with. When you feed ready to tackle the prob again, check the source. Anyway, I am with you, I have a superbolt in my mag right now at AGD, and I am confident you'll do what needs to be done

-Dave

[Chaos]

That sux, i was really looking up at the superbolts for a number of problems they fixed. I think the lightness of the bolt is a deffinate plus! I asked a while back on why to use 'delrin', and the reply was mainly to make the bolt lighter thus for creating less recoil and with the longnose, less blowback. I think that is the main objective, and I think that will deffinately help the large customer database and reputation of the mag. Weight is something people complain about, all the SS parts and such, another is blowback. Cockers can 'suck' if they're properly setup right, mags just blow air up. So.. if lightness is the key, why not try to reinvent the superbolt? Hard anodized aluminum bolts perhaps? or titanium bolts (like the titanium backs of Ti boomsticks). Moving on would help, but i think it remains on the question of 'where to expand'. You can focus on this, which will help make classic automags to emags better which is a focus on newbie and advanced players, or you can go to bigger things like milling for Xtreme Emags and such, which is more of a focus on tourni players. Personally I think making the superbolts out of a different material perhaps would be a fix, as long as they're still light. Perhaps a harder plastic than delrin?

[OhMyAMoose]

I think the whole superbolt idea was a good idea and it still does have great potential. But you all should put it on the back burner for a while. Just give the people their money back, give them a sicker or two, and call it a day. Research different materials. I know a few plastics enginers in my family and I will ask them if they know of anything. Just do a few more months of research and I am sure something will turn up. Like many people have said before, you should get to work on other things. Update the store, work on the new emags, switch to regular pepsi, play some more paintball, maybe work on some new type barrels, maybe even try to redesign parts of the mag that may not be up to 100% of what they could be. whatever you may do, I am sure a lot of good will come out of it.

[DiRTyBuNNy]

Heck..if we do end up getting our money back i'd rather take it in merchandise than get the money back...fifty bucks off of a 4.5k Flatline or something like that..

[Manuel_FZR]

[Gunga]

Originally posted by Minimag4me
Possibly annodised aluminum(i liked the black bolt)?

It'd be a waste of time to anodize an aluminum sleeve. The anodization would get all scratched up and worn off from rubbing up against that steel spring.

[Gunga]

Originally posted by HyperSnyper
Titanium Bolt?

Shocktech is working on this. I don't know how much weight you'd save with titanium, but you can bet it's gonna be an expensive bolt. Titanium is hard to work with in comparison to other materials.

[hitech]

Have you thought about making the super bolt out of all delrin (except where the sear latches of course)? The body of the bolt could thread into the base (where the sear latches).

Personally I think you should move on to other things. But then no one in there right mind takes marketing advice from me (I'm a "techie").