R/T Custom outdated?

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  • VFX_Fenix
    -=Bishop=-
    • Sep 2004
    • 1052

    #31
    Short answer, not really. It's still fast as a mechanical and it'll shoot about as well as any mechanical in its price range.

    Long answer: Read On

    The real issue is that AGD hasn't come out with something "Original" since the 68 Automag. Consider that ever since Mags first started rolling off the line they have remained virtually unchanged. Every change that the Mag has undergone has been a refinement of a feature, the X-Valve, Level 10, ULT, ULE, etc. etc. etc. are all refined versions of the original. The design also doesn't lend itself well to aftermarket parts such as trigger plates and regulators. For a ULE Custom there's only realistically a handful of items that you can upgrade and after that, you're done, that's it *POOF*.

    Now you may say "well look at the Autococker" and it's true, the AC also has remained largely unchanged since it first made an appearance back in the day and all the bits on the stock guns are refined versions of the originals. However, look at the plethora of aftermarket parts for them up to and including 100% custom Cockers that aren't even made by WGP. Everyone and their brother in the paintball industry has practically made an upgrade of some sort for the Cocker. Cockers also have "never" been banned from a tournament serries (save for stock/pump or other limited formats) where as the Automag has (or at least as I recall it has).

    When Tom introduced the Automag is was years ahead of the curve. When Tom realized that the world was going electro he came up with the E-Mag and later the X-Mag, both of which are no longer in "current" production though you can still buy E-Mags from AGD. Ever since the E-Mag came out I feel that AGD's been trying to play catch-up and when that didn't exactly turn out they moved to the Scenario world. The fact remains that AGD has fallen by the wayside of the paintball world, AGD still makes great guns, but for what they can do compaired to how much they cost and how far you can take them after that they suddenly lose their appeal. It's been so long since I've seen an AGD advertisment in a magazine that I'm not even sude I'd know what I was looking at if I did see it. Without some strong campaigning, a truely new gun or at least a Mag was cheaper than the rest of the current mechanical semi guns in a mid price range (sub $200), and the cheaper the "new gun" the better.

    There is such a thing as brand loyalty, I think most of us on the AO have experienced some of that. If its possible to get new players hooked on AGD with an entry level gun then there might be a bright and strong future for AGD. As it stands, I see the aftermarket community being the future of AGD and even then I see AGD slipping into the pages of paintball history as a company that burned brightly then faded. If AGD is to truely have a future, it needs to change where its headed, a new gun, it doesn't really matter if it's low-end or high-end, but a new gun for AGD to show the world is what I see as a start. The Automag has had its momment in the spotlight, now its so obscure that virtually none of the new players even know what an Automag is. "What kind of gun (usually Shocker) is that?" shouldn't be a reasonable question, just like "Does the scoop on the hood of that Mustang work?" shouldn't be a reasonable question.

    Look at Smart Parts, there's a company that's intruduced 3 completely new guns all in as many years. The 03 Shocker, Nerve and Ion, personally I don't like SP's business practices, but their support people (or at least the ones I've run into) have been exceptionally friendly (even with me toting around my E-Mag while talking to one of them) and interested about what people think of their products. Don't missunderstand me, I'm not saying that AGD should be like SP or that I think AGD's support people aren't friendly/helpfull/etc.. Look at WGP, they came out with a line of entry-level guns last Fall to add to their already impressive array of COckers with various levels of ups on them. Kingman, granted a Spyder is a Spyder is a Spyder, but c'mon, look at the firepower that they're putting into these things and then selling them for close to rock-bottom prices, also consider that every couple of years they rotate out their "older" models or give them a make-over with some new miling and/or features. ICD, always there in the background but still making strides forward in their products line with the introducts of the BKO and Freestyle. WDP is in something of the same boat as AGD though they have an advantage in that they're an electro company and all they have to do is catch-up (initially) then stay with the other big electro companies (I think they've done it with the 05 speed) plus the added feature that they have two levels of Angel in production. Gen-E and Bob Long have almost fanatical followings, Bobby for his flavor of the week Timmys and Gen-E for the o-so-insane LP operation of the Trix along with the custom flavors of the same gun by DYE/Proto.

    Anyway, long and short of it all is this. AGD hasn't done a handfull of things in the last who knows how many years. They haven't made a completely new and/or cheaper gun, they haven't advertised, they haven't been at tournaments, they haven't diversified into making clothing/soft goods of any sort *points to DYE/SP/WDP* and it just seems like AGD doesn't care.

    The Pneumatic triggers initially from Deadly Wind and now going to production with Pro-Team are the first truely new and innovative things that I've seen for the Automag. The E-Mag and all electronic mag bits were all taken care of by the Hyperframes and the like and the X-Mag was a decendant of the E-Mag, again a refined version of it. Depending on how PTP handles the Pnuematic frame this could be the resurection of the Automag on the tournament scene in serries that have limited ROF's (like PSP and X-Ball) though if anyone will use it is another point since Ramping is definately easier than actually pulling. Anyway, I should go before I doom and gloom myself to death.

    Comment

    • undescriptive
      Battered and Bruised
      • Apr 2004
      • 279

      #32
      hot-dang!

      that's probably the best post I have read in months!

      Comment

      • Mechanic79
        Whatever, I do what I want

        • Jul 2001
        • 666

        #33
        ahead of their time

        Originally posted by MadPSIence
        I'm nervous about buying a mag. My reason... the R/T Pro is 6 years old. The only news is the lvl10 bolt and Xvalve .. both years old.

        I like what I see about the R/T Pro ... and actually have one in my shopping cart at airgun.com but I just need to know this gun can keep up with new guns in terms of speed accuracy and overall quality..

        I'm sure some of you can understand where I come from here. 6 years is a long time between new models.. a friggin long time.

        The one I have in cart right now is a black CF ULE body with black intelliframe, lvl 10 and x valve + ULT... so basically everything maxxed except warpfeed which I don't want..
        I'm just replying to the "6 years between models":

        AGD was simply ahead of their time, no other manufacturer had such a tight package, reliable and durable. Quality lasts! you can't get any smaller or lighter either. Manufacturers today are copying the design.

        I think AGD will always have a following (not counting those that fall off the wagon or bandwagon jumpers, *The loudest ones don't speak for everyone!) Their will always be a solid fan base.

        Mechanic79's FeedBack

        Comment

        • kurama
          Registered User
          • Dec 2004
          • 189

          #34
          The paradigm is basically a RT Pro with some upgrades at a great price. Its 10$ less than a RT pro of the same setup, but the paradigm comes with an upgraded rail also, and having a colored ULE body doesn't cost any more. If you want pics, look for a RT pro and its pretty much the same.

          Oh, and the main page after you click "enter the site" shows a roguemag with a barrel. Its pretty similar, I bet you could see the differences between it and a paradigm.

          Comment

          • peewee
            AGD,ICD,CCM & CCI (Gunho!)
            • Mar 2004
            • 1400

            #35
            Wow this thread has made me feel all fuzzy!!!! Personally I went thru the gambit of markers, cockers ( ebladed) shockers etc. They for the most part were good guns due to the fact that I have learned how to maintain them. Some are a pain!!! I came back to the automag after several years of wandering. I can go up against any marker out there & I never feel outgunned. The RT ULE is a new marker in comparison to the classic , but they share the facts that they are insanly reliable, very well built ( quality), dont require much maintenance, shoot fast & are quiet. I plan on the PTP frame but if that falls thru I will devilize it!!!
            AGD
            :hail: AGD :hail: CCI :hail:

            Comment

            • Alpha
              Support our troops. <3
              • Nov 2004
              • 841

              #36
              Mags will be outdated when people like you and me stop buying them.

              If you think mags are outdated, I encourage you to visit www.TheMagSmith.com

              "Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country." -JFK

              Comment

              • UTDragun
                Tennessee Paintvols
                • Feb 2005
                • 1052

                #37
                speed is good enough for me, i have a logic frame and can easily walk 15bps legally
                embargo backwards = o grab me

                "Guns dont kill people, husbands that come home early do." -Larry The Cable Guy

                Dragun Drallion, nexus kit, tickler, e2, pysco 5" drop w/ on off, macroline, A+ bolt and back block, Oydessy 3 barrel kit, armson stealth, 15* ASA, Kapp pump arm, Black Magic, warp feed w/ 12v upgrade, halo b w/ vic&rip, 91/4500 bulldog

                Tippmann 98C ebolt, lp kit, m-16 kit, palmer stabilizer

                Comment

                • Lohman446
                  Useful posts: 7
                  • Jun 2003
                  • 9315

                  #38
                  Originally posted by UTDragun
                  speed is good enough for me, i have a logic frame and can easily walk 15bps legally

                  I want video proof of a sustained (10 seconds) fifteen balls per second on any gun with single pull single shot trigger system. Meet these requirements and I will give the first person to post it $20 by paypal. Must be able to see each individual trigger pull and sound graph analysis must match those pulls to the shots fired. Must be with paint. Rather than judging it myself I will accept the juding of it from someone like RRFireblade. Lets see it. I honestly don't beleive anyone, on any marker that uses non-enhanced firing modes (ramping, auto, RT), is getting a sustained 15 balls per second.
                  "Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, nothing is going to get better. Its not" - Dr Suess

                  Comment

                  • Kallahan
                    Registered User
                    • Dec 2004
                    • 63

                    #39
                    Originally posted by warbeak2099
                    The only reason AGD hasn't changed the overall design is that there's nothing to change. It's only flaw is average air efficiency and the inability to reach over 14bps legally. You're never going to change the efficiency problem so all you can do is get a bigger/higher capacity tank. As for speed, there are plenty upgrades available and more on the way. Why should AGD spend more green on r&d if there really isn't anything to improve?
                    With so many markers out performing mag's these days, exactly how is this true. There are more consistant markers, more efficent markers, faster markers, lighter markers. The RT pro is a dated design. Plus your arguments are all crap, bad efficeny still exists no matter how large your tank is. What if I want to finish a game on a 47/3000?
                    The one thing wrong with AGD is simple, they have no new product, thats what's killing them.

                    Cokers are continously being improved, The ram/lpr/reg/3-way are all updated. They now have delrin bolts stock and a removable feed neck. They have an electronic frame ect. a fully loaded 2005 cocker is far superior to a fully loaded cocker from 2003. These are done by WGP or incorporated and sold by WGP.

                    Comment

                    • GA Devil
                      Devil's Den Paintball
                      • Aug 2003
                      • 1455

                      #40
                      DevilMAG

                      there you got the mag with all the speed you can want.


                      When true evil smacks you in the face you never forget it.


                      Official DevilMAG Thread
                      Devil's Den Paintball
                      The Aggressive Generation

                      Comment

                      • MadPSIence
                        Innovation 101
                        • Mar 2005
                        • 969

                        #41
                        lol, boys check out the rest of the forum. I've since bought a custom mag and turned it into a monster of sorts..

                        Comment

                        • Adrenaline_Junkie

                          #42
                          Originally posted by MadPSIence
                          is there anyone here from FragTek? I def have a few questions about them.. I like the dual hose setup too bad it's not available
                          Im not from fragtek but that red/silver mag on the main page is mine . Its sweet

                          Comment

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