Technalogical advancements In markers?

[duby]

heat seeking paintballs.

[sbpyro]

stupidity seeking paintballs

[SlartyBartFast]

Fantastic quote hitech!

Hard to believe that some folks think that AGD was at a technical standstill!

I challenged AGD on that post and never got a reply.

If what was said is true. Do it.

Then find someone who is moderatly skilled at marketing.

The regulator eliminatoin idea is cool, but any electronically controlled regs just means more ways to easily cheat. Plus, there's no such thing at current painball marker pressures, let alone higher. If you could design it, you'd make a fortune and not just in the paintball market.

What I'd like to see is.....

Well, if I gave away my ideas, I'd lose out on implementing them, wouldn't I....

[FallNAngel]

A marker that I can play Tetris on.

Buy an Angel.... they'll have Tetris eventually; I mean, they have all the other useless bells and whistles...

[Automaggin2]

Imagine refs running around with PDAs syncing up tpo markers via bluetooth and checking to make sure no one is cheating

[rx2]

I challenged AGD on that post and never got a reply.

If what was said is true. Do it.

I agree that there is often a lot of talk, but there is quite a margin between real possibilities, and the actual implementation thereof. I am sure that if Tom (when he was in charge) were in a position to lose a lot of money without even thinking twice, he could have put out a marker like the one he described. The problem is that even with design concepts out of the way, there would still be tons of cash that would need to be invested in the actual fabrication of such proprietary designs. Futhermore, a large portion of paintballers would still overlook it as another failed attempt by AGD to revive what they see as a dead company. It is too big of a risk. The market is too fickle. That was actually the point of his message, I think. Lots of things could be done, but they just aren't feasible considering market trends. Also, I think that one must consider the fact that those things listed still wouldn't be huge advantages, especially considering that such a marker would undoubtedly have a very high price. It would take a company with money to burn to attempt something. Not a company that many think is already out of business anyway.

I should say, though, that I have always thought that his backpack concept was flawed. I used a remote for a while do to tendon injuries, and when I went back to having a tank on the marker, I realized just how much I hated having a hose going to my back. I suspect that many would benefit less from having a huge magazine on the back than they would form not having any tether such as a hose. They get caught, they can crimp, they can tear, and they can restrict movement. Furthermore, his comparison to real firearms is flawed, as I don't know of any military that issues infantry rifles that are fed via belt from a backpack.

Anyhow, I think that things are going to be slow for a while, with mere minor updates here and there.

[Dayspring]

The mQvalve is poised to revolutionize how hammer style guns work. The cocker valve lets the gun cycle at 30+bps (WITH PAINT) and significantly reduces reciprocating mass. It's also incredibly efficient and REALLY controllable- dwell in the .25ms range.

[Lurker27]

Let's go ahead and analyze point by point.

Well if everyone were to suddenly give up their preconcieved notions of what is good and bad about a paintgun then this is what we could do NOW.

OK, Tom, let's do that.

Run guns at much HIGHER pressures so you could make all the internal components smaller and more compact. This would lead to overall smaller guns with better efficiency.

Smaller? We've got to have at least a .75 OD tube. And we need the breech sealing mechanism to traverse at least that. Plus a valve. Plus a reg. Where, Praytell, are we going to get so much smaller? Would it even matter? Maybe you just shouldn't make guns out of stainless steel if you want them to be light

Better efficiency means smaller tanks making the guns lighter and smaller overall.

Efficiency of current guns is already approaching 70% efficiency, shooting deep into the tank. Raising pressures is somewhat counterproductive to this end.

Built in crono's that maintain your velocity at exactly what you set it to even when your tank starts running below your working pressure. This would mean that even though you we shooting a "high pressure" marker you would use it to the bottom of the tank. In order to do this you would have to have a fixed barrel but since everyone has to waist money on replacable barrels this thinking would have to change.

It's been tried, and the fact of the matter is that internal chronographs take everything as ideal...You'd have to have a perfect reg for this to make a difference, and if you have a perfect reg...Oops! we just solved the problem we were combatting in the first place.

Trigger systems that would accomodate ALL of your fingers for "4 finger walking" pushing the fire power into the 30 BPS range.

Again, been tried, by some models of Mamba Angels. The coordination just isn't there. MAYBE with a differential triggering system like the one I've propounded in the past.

Pre-load bolt systems that chamber the next round while you are firing the first elliminating ball feed lag.

Feeding a paintball faster than ~36 bps is impossible without a padded breech. As for how you'd preload a ball, I don't know. But, certainly, feeding paint isn't a problem at reasonable speeds. See: Viking 31 bps with paint.

Pressure feeding loaders that feed balls from anywhere into your flamethrower. OOPS we already have that, Warp Feeds....

We have a very early incarnation of this...But for it to make a significant market impact, it would have to be better done. Better than the Q-loader, as well. Good enough that people convert from their no-rises to side-feeds? Gonna happen? Maybe. Anytime soon? Doubtful...I wouldn't be surprised to see more an more integrated loaders in the future.

Electronically timed millisecond on/off valves that would completely eliminate regulators. Lets see, we can take off the tank reg, then the vert reg and oh yea the LPR too. You would have to be ready to put all those manufacturers out of business.

Why? Current regulator technology keeps up quite nicely. You'd need a way of determining downstream pressure, and a solenoid valve operating at upwards of 800 psi. Could a sophisticated balanced poppet do it? maybe. Would it be worth it? Doubt ful.

Very high speed two shot bursts where the 2nd ball would draft close behind the first ball for greater accuracy. The first ball would disrupt the air column and leave behind a turbulent wake. The turbulence would disrupt the laminar flow that leads to vortex shedding on the 2nd ball. Disrupt the vortex and improve the accuracy.

...And slip stream balls right into eachother, causing breaks in mid air. Well, at least its not in your barrel...

No real gun with any state of the art firepower shoots from a clip. Clips are so 1900's. Real guns in all the worlds militaries use a belt feed from a huge magazine. We still love our cute little pods and hoppers and fashion matched pod belts so we look good when we are posing on the field. Maybe someday we will get with the program and use a backpack that could shoot a case of paint non stop. Oh yea, we have that right now too but no one wants it.

This is chock full of ridiculous statements. Saying that no modern firearm uses clips is simply ludicrous, for the same reason we don't use backpacks. Mobility. Sure, never reloading is nice, but with a good clip based system, possibly integrated into the marker, we could be reloading 100+ rounds in well under a second.

And last but not lease an electronically timed, high pressure marker without regulators could plug into a laptop, test itself and tell you exactly what's wrong with it.

How many times could you have paid to have it professionally teched before the sensors pay for themselves?

This is just one possible reality, most likely not to be part of any of your futures. Have fun with your pods.


It's the blind AGD zealotism that really angers me. Good things are being done to innovate in an industry that's mostly stagnant, and content with the current level of technology.

But the innovation isn't coming from AGD anymore. Those of you holding your breath won't be here in the fall, I'm afraid.

[doc_Zox]

SpellCheck

[SlartyBartFast]

No real gun with any state of the art firepower shoots from a clip. Clips are so 1900's. Real guns in all the worlds militaries use a belt feed from a huge magazine. We still love our cute little pods and hoppers and fashion matched pod belts so we look good when we are posing on the field. Maybe someday we will get with the program and use a backpack that could shoot a case of paint non stop. Oh yea, we have that right now too but no one wants it.

This is chock full of ridiculous statements. Saying that no modern firearm uses clips is simply ludicrous, for the same reason we don't use backpacks. Mobility. Sure, never reloading is nice, but with a good clip based system, possibly integrated into the marker, we could be reloading 100+ rounds in well under a second.

Tom was on a rant, so I'd cut him SOME leeway.

But yea, the clip statement was gratuitously rediculous.

http://www.hkdefense.us/pages/military-le/rifles-carbines/xm8.html

http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?s=1-292925-xm8_100.php

[hitech]

Smaller?... We've got to have... Plus a valve. Plus a reg.

you could make all the internal components smaller and more compact. This would lead to overall smaller guns...Electronically timed millisecond on/off valves that would completely eliminate regulators.

internal chronographs take everything as ideal...You'd have to have a perfect reg for this to make a difference...

Electronically timed millisecond on/off valves that would completely eliminate regulators.

Trigger systems that would accommodate ALL of your fingers for "4 finger walking" pushing the firepower into the 30 BPS range.

Again, been tried, by some models of Mamba Angels. The coordination just isn't there. MAYBE with a differential triggering system like the one I've propounded in the past.

Well if everyone were to suddenly give up their preconceived notions of what is good and bad about a paintgun...

Walking is NOT the fastest way to shoot a paintgun.



Feeding a paintball faster than ~36 bps is impossible without a padded breech.

You are wrong. Just because you can't think of a way to do it doesn't mean it can't be done.


Pressure feeding loaders that feed balls from anywhere into your flamethrower. OOPS we already have that, Warp Feeds....

We have a very early incarnation of this...But for it to make a significant market impact, it would have to be better done.

Well if everyone were to suddenly give up their preconceived notions of what is good and bad about a paintgun...

The current systems, while not perfect, are better than a blimp on top of a marker. They just don't look cool...



Current regulator technology keeps up quite nicely. You'd need a way of determining downstream pressure, and a solenoid valve operating at upwards of 800 psi. Could a sophisticated balanced poppet do it? maybe. Would it be worth it? Doubtful.

Again, you are just wrong. Just because you can't think of how to do something, doesn't mean it can't be done. I could design an on/off valve that would be electronically controlled, run off a 9 volt battery and handle tank pressures. Don't know how fast it would be. But, I'm not an engineer...



Very high-speed two shot bursts where the 2nd ball would draft close behind the first ball for greater accuracy...

...And slip stream balls right into each other, causing breaks in mid air. Well, at least it's not in your barrel...

Have you done some sort of research to know what you are talking about? The person you are claiming is wrong certainly has. Can you point to ANY research that supports this claim?


Saying that no modern firearm uses clips is simply ludicrous...

You need to reread the statement. That's not what he said. Here it is again:

No real gun with any state of the art firepower shoots from a clip.

So, what gun with "state of the art firepower" shoots from a clip?



...with a good clip based system, possibly integrated into the marker, we could be reloading 100+ rounds in well under a second.

You can dump the current clip from the marker, reach into a clip carrier, remove a clip, and load it in WELL UNDER a second? Shoot us a video...

How many times could you have paid to have it professionally teched before the sensors pay for themselves?

Making assumptions, aren't we?


It's the blind AGD zealotism that really angers me.

No blind loyalty. I simply trust that Tom is not lying.

[SlartyBartFast]

...
So, what gun with "state of the art firepower" shoots from a clip?
...
No blind loyalty. I simply trust that Tom is not lying.

Isn't the XM-8 "state-of-the-art"? That's 100 rounds in a clip/drum/magazine. Name an infantry weapon that's fed from a belt as Tom's rant says "state-of-the-art" guns should.


We can truct Tom not to lie. But everyone is capable of hyperbole.

[hitech]

Isn't the XM-8 "state-of-the-art"? That's 100 rounds in a clip/drum/magazine. Name an infantry weapon that's fed from a belt as Tom's rant says "state-of-the-art" guns should.

Not just state of the art, but state of the art firepower. The "firepower" of that gun doesn't look to be much more than the M16...

[SlartyBartFast]

Not just state of the art, but state of the art firepower. The "firepower" of that gun doesn't look to be much more than the M16...

So, give us an example of firepower. Or for the very least define what you mean.

And keep it infantry.

[hitech]

So, give us an example of firepower. Or for the very least define what you mean.

And keep it infantry.

I don't know that there are any weopons with state of the art firepower for the infantry. They are just cannon fodder, after all...

For this discussion, rate of fire would work for a definition of firepower.