Technalogical advancements In markers?

[ApexAZ]

I think paintball needs longer range and improved accuracy without compromising safety.

[Lurker27]

The only real guns using belt feeds are machine guns such as the M249. While this is inarguably state of the art firepower, I wouldn't want to break one to the 50.

You say walking isn't the fastest way to shoot a paintgun. I concur. Raking is faster. The fact is, 3-4 fingers walking tends to lose more shots than it gains. Drum on a desk. Make sure only 1 finger is down while tapping with 2 fingers. Easy. Just alternate. Try it with 3 fingers...th enatural inclination is to move with a wave type pattern. You can make a nice quick sound, but as far as individual activations, I think it's somewhat disappointing.

Regarding feeding paint faster than 36ish bps....You'd have to get the bolt synchronized to the falling of the paintstack in order to decrease the final (impact) velocity of the paint with respect to the breech. Doable on a consistent basis? I doubt it. Even if there was a way to accomplish this, the benefit, given the actual rate of fire reached by anyone, is vanishingly small.

As far as the current systems being better, I'm not so sure. The best benefit, IMO, is not changing hands to shoot, ever. However, with good shooting technique, profile isn't a particularly convincing issue. Dynasty Dysected gives excellent examples of how to play tight with a "blimp" on top. In addition, warp setups are, almost invariably, heavy. This is without mentioning the fact that most guns are set up for vertical hoppers. Perhaps a better warpfeed, or improved Q-loader would do well, but I am of the opinion that clip based systems are the future for our sport...And plenty of shooters can reload that fast. Perhaps, I, too, am prone to hyperbole, but snapping a clip into placed is faster than pouring a pod into a hole, that much is certain. A sport that requires alot of body manipulation, sliding, and diving, is no place for a necessarily fragile and flexible hose with brittle ammunition coming through it.

As for our theoretical regulator replacement, I'm sure I could design something to do it as well. In fact, I even said it was doable with a balanced poppet design. But the problem isn't in making it, necessarily, it's in making it better than what we have now. If it's going to be a proper regulator, it needs to have a way of referencing the current pressure in the system. This could be as simple as a moving piston that trips a microswitch. However, the valve mechanism takes up space, does not necessarily stop exactly at the pressure you want it to (valve closing time). You end up with a system that, in all likelihood, is of comparable size and performance to our current regulators, with the added bonus of using power. I understand that Tom would like us all to be putting 4500 psi directly into our guns, but I'm not so sure my overmilled aluminum tube really wants to be relying on an electronic system to keep pressure out of the gun. Regs, currently, creep, sure, but at least there's 2 of them for some level of redundancy. What happens if som paint caused the contacts of your pressure sensor to malfunction and you're feeding your gun tank pressure? I don't even want to think about it. From a math and engineering standpoint, these concepts are highly attractive from afar, but given our current level of mechanical sophistication, I think it's not worth it. What's the appeal? Recharge? Consistency?

[SlartyBartFast]

For this discussion, rate of fire would work for a definition of firepower.

15bps, that SLOW limit recently placed on certain tournies, works out to be 900rpm.
20bps = 1200rpm
The machine guns here shoot 900-1000rpm max. http://www.fnherstal.com/html/Index.htm
Paintball guns have equivalent "firepower" to the fastest shooting firearms.

And how many rounds are on your typical belt?

Seems to me that with 150 rounds in a hopper you've got more simulated "firepower" than any real firearm available.

[SlartyBartFast]

I think paintball needs longer range and improved accuracy without compromising safety.

Games can be boring enough with the range we have now. How big a field do you want to have to need?

And accuracy..... Well NOTHING more can be done while keeping the ball impacts safe and/or changing EVERYTHING about ALL the equipment used.

[mandatory]

I think the 4 finger method couold be implemented. Im a semi-professional turntablist (DJ who specialises in the art of scratching) and i use a similartechnique in djing. its called a crab and implys the 4 fingers in a raking motion to produce 4 seperate sounds, done repeatedly you can achieve "rolls" of as many notes as you can keepup the pattern. I feel that all you need is to have a trigger that you can easly fit your thumb behind so as to pusn the trigger back out after each press with the other 4 fingers. I may exparament withthis and let you guys know what i come up with. I have a few ideas how to do it. im gonna try to incorperate the fader switch from my dj equipment cause it uses breakbeam technology to tripp it as well as curve adjustment (switch length). its a wacky idea but im gonna do a little recrarch on the what and hows of paintball microswitches and such and see how i can get them compatable with other forms if electro-switches. thanks for rebooting my enthusiasim for this idea.

[ApexAZ]

M60 and M249.

[Gunga]

So, give us an example of firepower. Or for the very least define what you mean.

And keep it infantry.

There ya go! He's even using a backpack.

But back onto projectile based firepower, all the really high rate of fire guns use belts, not magazines - from man operated machine guns such as the M-60 (550 rounds/min) or MG-42 (1200-1300 rounds/min) up to the M61 Vulcan(6000 rounds/min - used in the US fighter aircraft & naval Phalanx anti-missile system) & GAU-8 Avenger (3900 rounds/min) used by the A-10.

These days, it seems most everyone's obsessed with rate of fire. Whether or not they can even hope to stand a chance of firing that fast.

[teufelhunden]

15bps, that SLOW limit recently placed on certain tournies, works out to be 900rpm.
20bps = 1200rpm
The machine guns here shoot 900-1000rpm max. http://www.fnherstal.com/html/Index.htm
Paintball guns have equivalent "firepower" to the fastest shooting firearms.

And how many rounds are on your typical belt?

Seems to me that with 150 rounds in a hopper you've got more simulated "firepower" than any real firearm available.

And that little ditty conveniently forgets that with real firearms, the barrel isn't going to stay solid at that ROF for too long

[ApexAZ]

Games can be boring enough with the range we have now. How big a field do you want to have to need?

And accuracy..... Well NOTHING more can be done while keeping the ball impacts safe and/or changing EVERYTHING about ALL the equipment used.

It's not so much about being able to shoot farther rather then shooting with less arc.

As far as improved accuracy, I don't know how well the double shot thing that Tom mentioned would work, but there has to be a better way. You are right though, it might not be cost effective or it would have to completely redesign the current technology.

Paintballs need more mass and a better aerodynamic design to achieve any more accuracy. I don't believe it's impossible to design something, just not likely in the near future.

[hitech]

Regarding feeding paint faster than 36ish bps....You'd have to get the bolt synchronized...

You're assuming that you need to have a bolt.

As far as the current systems being better, I'm not so sure. The best benefit, IMO, is not changing hands to shoot, ever. However, with good shooting technique, profile isn't a particularly convincing issue.

Well, since the rules keep changing to make the current method of play have an advantage, I guess your right. What rule change am I talking about? It use to be against the rules to modify any bunker in any way. Pushing your marker into an inflatable bunker would be altering the bunker.

warp setups are, almost invariably, heavy...Perhaps a better warpfeed, or improved Q-loader would do well, but I am of the opinion that clip based systems are the future for our sport...

The existing warp and qloader are first design products. They both could be improved. BTW, a qloader is just a clip, with all the drawbacks of a clip (limited rounds, can't reload until empty without "wasting" rounds, etc.).

As for our theoretical regulator replacement...

Tom wasn't talking about replacing the regulator(s), he was talking about eliminating them. Making them not necessary, or even advantageous. In a simple nutshell, begin delivering air to the area behind the paintball. When the paintball has accelerated enough, stop the air flow.

I understand that Tom would like us all to be putting 4500 psi directly into our guns...

Only a newly designed one that was built for it.

What's the appeal? Recharge? Consistency?

The ability to get WAY more shots per tank, shoot any paint at exactly the same velocity and shoot it faster than is currently possible.

[Lohman446]

To those who say this idea won't work... you may be right

To those who say, basically, that we cannot improve technologically any more let me present this idea to you. Thats basically what AGD said a few years ago... look where they are now.

[Lurker27]

I really don't think that air consistency is the current limiting factor...It's more paint and friction. Current regs are quite good.

As far as a smart valve, rather than regulation..you would need either a series of eyes in the breech, or a pressure transducer...I just don't see it as advantageous...I'm suspicious of the claims of increased efficiency...We're pretty good right now. The 2000+ (68/45) shot crowd is bigger now, but is by no means new.

[hitech]

As far as a smart valve, rather than regulation..you would need either a series of eyes in the breech, or a pressure transducer...

"Radar Chronos" work without either of those.

[ApexAZ]

Anyone ever wonder how a bullet shaped piece of foam that is soaked in paint and encased in a brittle shell would do? Seems like you could increase the mass and velocity and the foam wouldn't hurt much! Possibly even rifle it... But then we're back to redesigning the wheel aren't we?

[Beemer]

Only a newly designed one that was built for it.

Maybe, but there is one out now that is rated at 3000psi and could be rated higher since it was tested at over 5000psi.

15bps, that SLOW limit recently placed on certain tournies, works out to be 900rpm.
20bps = 1200rpm
The machine guns here shoot 900-1000rpm max.

Thats slow. Try the Dillon at 3000rpm..see vid here

http://home.comcast.net/~beemerone/psychogun.wmv

And that little ditty conveniently forgets that with real firearms, the barrel isn't going to stay solid at that ROF for too long

Not if its multi-Barrel....see above vid.


Paintball is in a Paradigm shift but everybody is still stuck in the box.

Why do I still have to load my hopper from silly little pods? Oh ya because thats the ONLY way right now. Sell a back pack and I would run it. Wait, Im still stuck in the box