When is enough enough

[AGD202]

getting overshot is fun a lot of times.... and i dont know bout all of you, but the people i play with have gotten way past the pain stage of paintball... we hardly feel getting hit anymore

[TheTramp]

getting overshot is fun a lot of times....

Tell that to the new kid just starting out. I bet he wont agree.

[yakitori]

I dont think having fast guns means ppl are over shooting. ALL guns have a trigger. The user behind it is the one that makes the decision to dump it or not to dump it. Ive been overshot more times than I can count on both hands by some jerk at a woodsball field dressed up all milsim and must have had an attitude cause I was wearing a jersey. I shot him twice, he turns around and lights me up in the back like 15 times. He was using a tippmann a5 w/o an RT. And he was using CO2, which I think his velocity had spiked majorly. That was the second time that day the same arse pumped a bunch of paint on me, so I turned back on him and dumped about 15 on him. He approaches me and kinda pushes me a bit and talks crap to me.

My point is. It doesnt matter how many bps is coming at you. Nobody is going to be "hurt" by 6 balls. If they do, they need to quit the sport.

Thats my take on it.

I also dont appreciate the 1500 dollar gun that mommy bought them comment. Ive worked and earned and spent every bit of my OWN money on my equipment. I did get graduation gifts when I graduated college (which tuition I earned on MY own, no grants, just scholarships and paychecks and my own studying), and that money was put into my fund. I work a full time job, and I have a baby on the way. I am only 25, and I play fair. PPl like the guy above (that overshot me at the field) tend to see what gun I shoot, see my attire, and either get jealous or just turn straight arsehole, because they seem to be the ones I have probs w/. That doesnt make sense to me cause I tone my game down A LOT at the rec field, yet I get pummeled by some dweeb in military attire. Its very annoying. I dont see paintball as a War game, and I dont pretend that my gun is "real". I dont overshoot ppl at the field, and I play fair. I expect the same courtesy back, but dont always get it. Its usually THESE type of ppl that complain about fast guns.

Get over it. Play the game or quit the game.

Fast guns dont spoil the game, jerks do. PPL choose how much paint they want to shoot at you, regardless of mech semi or electric.

[Lohman446]

I also dont appreciate the 1500 dollar gun that mommy bought them comment. Ive worked and earned and spent every bit of my OWN money on my equipment. I did get graduation gifts when I graduated college (which tuition I earned on MY own, no grants, just scholarships and paychecks and my own studying), and that money was put into my fund.

Little defensive are we? I don't see anyone really complainging about any gun ... just the apathy that is going to get someone hurt. We disregard our own safety standards on a whim

[nippinout]

Getting paint on someone is the point of the game.

Wiping is not cheating? It isn't cheating until you get caught?

Eliminating the other team is the entire point of paintball!

[nippinout]

On a related note, maybe wiping and playing on is expected in so called 'professional' play.

But in recreational play, there is no need to play with cheater boards or wiping.

[tony3]

I dont think having fast guns means ppl are over shooting. ALL guns have a trigger. The user behind it is the one that makes the decision to dump it or not to dump it. Ive been overshot more times than I can count on both hands by some jerk at a woodsball field dressed up all milsim and must have had an attitude cause I was wearing a jersey. I shot him twice, he turns around and lights me up in the back like 15 times. He was using a tippmann a5 w/o an RT. And he was using CO2, which I think his velocity had spiked majorly. That was the second time that day the same arse pumped a bunch of paint on me, so I turned back on him and dumped about 15 on him. He approaches me and kinda pushes me a bit and talks crap to me.

My point is. It doesnt matter how many bps is coming at you. Nobody is going to be "hurt" by 6 balls. If they do, they need to quit the sport.

Thats my take on it.

I also dont appreciate the 1500 dollar gun that mommy bought them comment. Ive worked and earned and spent every bit of my OWN money on my equipment. I did get graduation gifts when I graduated college (which tuition I earned on MY own, no grants, just scholarships and paychecks and my own studying), and that money was put into my fund. I work a full time job, and I have a baby on the way. I am only 25, and I play fair. PPl like the guy above (that overshot me at the field) tend to see what gun I shoot, see my attire, and either get jealous or just turn straight arsehole, because they seem to be the ones I have probs w/. That doesnt make sense to me cause I tone my game down A LOT at the rec field, yet I get pummeled by some dweeb in military attire. Its very annoying. I dont see paintball as a War game, and I dont pretend that my gun is "real". I dont overshoot ppl at the field, and I play fair. I expect the same courtesy back, but dont always get it. Its usually THESE type of ppl that complain about fast guns.

Get over it. Play the game or quit the game.

Fast guns dont spoil the game, jerks do. PPL choose how much paint they want to shoot at you, regardless of mech semi or electric.

Nice post. <--I hate that smiley but only thing that is worthwhile to put in the situation.

[ColdFuzion]

Wiping and playing on is just plain rude.

However, with a 15 BPS cap, I have no problem with a ramped gun, as long as velocity stays safe. I have been lit a few times in ramp tourney's, and I have done my fair share of glocking with a ramped Ripper II Timmy... It's fine in tourneys, I think. But for practice, what's the point? I feel the same way about bunkering; in the woods, you play surrender, in big speedball games or tourneys, you play bunker, but for practice, what's the point? You know he's out, why put a teammate through about 5 close shots? I just call my teammates when I walk up on them in tourney practice.

-Cold

[punkncat]

I just wonder how long you will beat this dead dog about "safety standards".

I understand where you are coming from. I respect the wisdom in seeing the problem for what it is. I actually agree with you. Markers have gotten too fast. The problem is that its what sells. Its what "most" people want, or at least say they want.

I see it as the impending death of the sport. New players go to the field and absolutely get mowed. It has made the first game a dreadful experiance rather than the fun, challenging thing that it was a few years back where SKILL truly mattered most. Not how much money you have for paint.

Do you think paint manufacturers and field and shop owners mind high ROF?
What about gun manufacturers who can make a "new" marker that is supposedly faster than gun X by a tiny bit and sell them like hotcakes?

I mean really noone can honestly shoot faster than the loader will work. Whats a Victory boarded Halo running nowdays? Maybe 25BPS or so?

But aside from my agreement and others, and the continued debate about this subject...how much longer are you going to lobby this? Do you feel that you are making an effect on the sport by griping about this constantly? Have you changed anyones mind by constantly bringing this up?

I would be willing to bet no.

Lobby this stuff at a local field. Lobby it at a tourney.

The 15BPS cap used by "some" leagues is a step in the right direction. Hopefully local fields institute a cap or at least divisional play. Let those who want to "cheat" mow each other. I will hop in with my mech mag and play right along. Aint Skeered.

...quit beating the poor dead dog...

This post was not meant to tick you off. But as you said in your title...enough IS enough. REALLY be proactive and go play stock class or pump.

[can'tthink of1]

My point is. It doesnt matter how many bps is coming at you. Nobody is going to be "hurt" by 6 balls. If they do, they need to quit the sport.

Thats my take on it.

Get over it. Play the game or quit the game.

Fast guns dont spoil the game, jerks do. PPL choose how much paint they want to shoot at you, regardless of mech semi or electric.

I kinda agree with you. But I do have safefty concerns. People like to just openly rail on their markers, and while 6 balls may not hurt you, I have others in mind when playing like the new players playing too. Then there is also more gross overshooting than 6 balls, it gets up to 10+ and I will start getting pissed. I agree its the user, but how much they do shoot does matter, cause know what, its coming at me, and I frankly don't want to be overshoot just because some kid thought his marker ramping up and maxxing his halo is cool. I do agree that is ultimately the user, but fast makers can ruin the game imo, but it does go back to the user, cause they set it to be fast. I don't complain about getting hit a few times, I complain about gross overshooting.

[Lohman446]

Its not just fast guns doing it, nor is it new. Remember that guy across the field in woodsball tournaments you needed to hit. Theres a reason your beavertail is on your autocockers. Anyone ever shake a CO2 bottle to get liquid to the gun to make it shoot further?

Let me tell you a story. I was at a tournament one day last year and the cheating was rampant. It started with the scheduling (some teams in the bracket getting a bye worth 100pts others getting games) and went from there. I watched refs wipe players... I watched refs birddog for players (intentionally). I watched one team "jump" the start by a good two seconds with no penalties.

I complained there, loudly and often... the general consensus is that I left the property before the promoter asked me to. The scarey thing is, I went to the same place again, I shut my mouth, and I played the same game they did... I went back, despite what I witnessed.

Its not that cheating can be stopped fully, its the apathy that has come. We play tournaments where we know people will cheat against us. We play where we know people will cheat in a way to make the environment of quesitonable safety. And yet we play. I was at a field one day when a team hung a flag on us... my backplayer looked at him and said "look, theres a team that cheats"... the man just turned around and walked away. It was true, we all knew it, and we all knew we knew it. I played against one team late in the day that had changed jerseys before we played them... to match our paint. I dumped pods and borrowed from another team to make this not work. I still played. I have called cheaters for what they are, to there face, and at home fields. It doesn't matter, people around me seem to not care. I have told people that I was going to cheat in a game... did anyone care? The PSP sets rules that allow, even encourage enhanced firing modes. Firing modes that they cannot point to us the scientific data that says they are safe. Noone cares. Its apathy, we accept cheating. Why? Can we stop all of it? Not a chance. Could we stop a lot of it that occurs today if we truly wanted to? Yep. So why don't we? Why do we continue to play with refs, players, and promotors that cheat?

[etjoyride]

I dont think having fast guns means ppl are over shooting. ALL guns have a trigger. The user behind it is the one that makes the decision to dump it or not to dump it. Ive been overshot more times than I can count on both hands by some jerk at a woodsball field dressed up all milsim and must have had an attitude cause I was wearing a jersey. I shot him twice, he turns around and lights me up in the back like 15 times. He was using a tippmann a5 w/o an RT. And he was using CO2, which I think his velocity had spiked majorly. That was the second time that day the same arse pumped a bunch of paint on me, so I turned back on him and dumped about 15 on him. He approaches me and kinda pushes me a bit and talks crap to me.

My point is. It doesnt matter how many bps is coming at you. Nobody is going to be "hurt" by 6 balls. If they do, they need to quit the sport.

Thats my take on it.

I also dont appreciate the 1500 dollar gun that mommy bought them comment. Ive worked and earned and spent every bit of my OWN money on my equipment. I did get graduation gifts when I graduated college (which tuition I earned on MY own, no grants, just scholarships and paychecks and my own studying), and that money was put into my fund. I work a full time job, and I have a baby on the way. I am only 25, and I play fair. PPl like the guy above (that overshot me at the field) tend to see what gun I shoot, see my attire, and either get jealous or just turn straight arsehole, because they seem to be the ones I have probs w/. That doesnt make sense to me cause I tone my game down A LOT at the rec field, yet I get pummeled by some dweeb in military attire. Its very annoying. I dont see paintball as a War game, and I dont pretend that my gun is "real". I dont overshoot ppl at the field, and I play fair. I expect the same courtesy back, but dont always get it. Its usually THESE type of ppl that complain about fast guns.

Get over it. Play the game or quit the game.

Fast guns dont spoil the game, jerks do. PPL choose how much paint they want to shoot at you, regardless of mech semi or electric.

this post is pretty close to the truth, except for that there are some people out there (not me) who have worked hard to get their gun(s) and just ramp or bonus ball because the enjoy making other people on the field (especially in rec) feel bad.

[GT]

When is enough enough

when we stop buying it....

[Toxic Dave]

when we stop buying it....

QFT!!

Manufacturers will stop making stuff when there isn't an overwhelming market for the product. Convincing people that they don't want machineguns is something that is tough to do though.

I keep reading about velocity cheats and how apparently they are running rampant in the tournament scene. This is weird to me since I spent the last 2 years as a factory gun tech and coach of a d1 X Ball team at PSP events and never saw or heard a substantiated incedent of it, much less saw it in person. I know there was some serious finger pointing at one team, but nothing anybody could prove, etc.

dave

[CoolHand]

I'll tell you why I still play:

Paintball is fun. The fun I get out of the game greatly outweighs any risks of injury or damage that I may incurr. That is a choice every person must make for themselves. If they are a minor, its a choice the parents must make, and live with.

On a related note:

Why are we as a country so obsessed with removing 100% of the risk from everything? Why is it that people think that an activity should not take place if there is the risk that someone may get hurt?

I see paintball through the glass of someone who has done other exponentually more dangerous things, and quite frankly, the chicken littles of the sport tear me up (that would be redneck for "they make me laugh very hard").

I handle high explosives on a weekly basis, and I have raced (and wrecked) more cars than most people will own in their lives, and I have been in coal mines where the roof is literally falling down around your ears. Any of these actitivies holds the possiblility of death, in very short order, if any number of things goes wrong or you make a mistake. Paintball is safe, and no matter how you cheat (short of shooting solid heavy rounds, say ball bearings) you are not going to kill anyone (unless you are trying to). And really, the worst damage you are likely to every sustain is a detached retena, or a broken ankle.

Bottom line? This game ain't about life and death. What few risks there are, can be easily and totally mitigated by a simple precaution or two (like wearing your damned mask, and adjusting the headband correctly).

AND, god forbid something does go awry, the end of the game (and safety) is just a few shouts and scant seconds away.

Three to ten seconds of mild danger, if ever. That's what I would call a safe sport (or certainly an acceptable risk IMO). Hell, you can burn to death in a race car in about 30 sec, and there ain't no time outs to be called on that one. You either get out on your own, or hope the track crew gets you out, or you die.

That's the biggest thing I see in paintball, that if played correctly, there is near zero risk. Only when something goes wrong is there any danger at all. In a race car, if you are at speed (and even sometimes if you aren't), you are in danger. Its a very stark contrast.

Maybe its just because I have carried over the awareness and attention to detail of being in the pits at a race, or being on a shot, but it seems to me to be a fairly easy thing to keep yourself out of danger when your mask is off (like don't look down the barrel of a marker with air on it). Seems simple enough to me, you just gotta pay attention.

What irritates me the most, is places that harp on one thing, and then neglect everything else. I went to a field, who did not allow you to cycle your marker in the pits, period. No matter if the barrel bag is on it, and there isn't a hopper there (which is fine, if they would have told us up front, no one is psychic). They chased me down and griped at me for timing my cocker (with the bolt upside down even), with a bag on it, and no hopper. While all day long, they let markers lay around, full of paint, with air on them, with no barrel bags at all. Never said a word about that. That seems to be missing the forest for the trees, at least to me.

I guess what I am trying to say, is that if you don't find the risk acceptable, do not play. Its not like anyone is forcing you to play paintball. Participation is not mandatory.

Like I said up top, I find the risk to rewards ratio to be more than acceptable.