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  • Aslan
    Don't Ban Me...Love Me
    • May 2005
    • 954

    #1

    Save Paintball

    Okay, I did a thread recently talking about the "death of paintball" and it got some good volume of respondants. So I thought about it some more, and thought I would ask a similar question...

    ...What idea do you have that you feel would most help the sport of paintball become more popular, profitable, better, etc...? Please feel free to post whatever you want, but try to at least come up with an idea before flaming other ideas.

    I'll start...right now...you go to a field and the prices are reasonable...$15-20 for all day play. Some fields provide free air, some don't, sometimes it's dependant on events. But the real problem I have noticed has been paint. Many fields, especially indoor, charge outrageous amounts of money for a case of "their" paint and don't allow you to bring your own. I've heard different reasons for this, but generally...it's the amusement park/movie theatre philosophy that once a person is in your area, you can charge them outrageous amounts for things they'll want/need and require that they not be allowed to supply themselves (i.e., ya can't bring candy to the theatre).

    Many fields/stores feel this is the best way to make themselves profitable because it gets players to the field with low entrance fees but makes that money back in paint sales.

    Here's my alternative proposal: Make paint at the field cheap. Charge an extra $10 entrance fee, let $5 of that increase go to raising the pay of the refs (in an attempt to get better quality refs with better attitudes) and use the other $5 of the increase to offset the losses you'll incur in paint costs. Essentially, instead of marking a $40 case of premium paint up to $60 at the field...mark it down to $25 or $30 IF that person pays the entrance fee and buys it at the field. Charge $50 or $60 for it in the store, but have the salespeople point out that they could get the paint cheaper if they go to the field and play one weekend.

    The plus side is that many players that currently are limited by $$$, and it's alot of players, will play more often. Rec players that have to decide between playing in their backyards or at the field...will be more likely to go to the field...especially if they need to buy paint. They may even buy EXTRA paint to use behind their house rather than losing that sale to Wal Mart. You may lose a few new players that are concerned mostly with the entrance fee...but once they go and realize that it is a fair fee for the amount of play and quality of play, they'll come back. You can still use field paint only! But here's the second part of the suggestion...offer multiple grades! Why continue to lose low-end paintball sales to Wal Mart? Offer three levels of paint...you could even buy Brass Eagle paint and give some of it away with registration (if the player wants it). Then offer an intermediate brand for $20/case and the premium for $30. In the store, they'll bay $35 per case of intermediate and $50 per case of premium...but they get their discount at the field.

    I also mentioned paying the refs a little more. Listen, one of the most common complaints of most people I talk to have to do with ref performance. The refs are the guys that make your day good or bad, safe or not safe. If giving them an extra incentive helps improve their performance...do it! A good field is great, but if the refs don't enforce rules or get people hurt...the players will play somewhere else. Refs will say that don't get paid very much and that's why they are unmotivated...well, maybe pay them a tad more. Maybe not...maybe make it an incentive...for every player that comes to the field...$5 goes into the general fund...at the end of the day...that gets divied up between all refs...sort of an incentive for them to encourage people to return.

  • Jaan
    It's Pronounced *John*

    • Apr 2005
    • 1310

    #2
    Some places I've noticed are already charging a little extra if you bring your own paint, which I think is fine, and many places have lowered thier field paint prices to resonable levels, and give you a choice of paint to boot. All this is good, and has helped, at least with the people I know.

    I agree about the refs. You need great refs to make a field fun to play at. Whenever someone new asks me where is a good place to play that's the first thing I consider. Nobody wants to bring thier 12 year old neice someplace to get beat up.

    There are a lot of us *with* money who still don't want to spend $40 + to play. Kids, food, cars, house etc all conspire to rob us of any extra quid. Special play days are a big encentive ... Automag days, tie dye days, hawaiian shirt days all for $10 field fee with all day air for example. One of my local fields is haveing an old fart day with players over 30 playing for FREE (even free rental). How cool is that.

    My biggest gripe are the young punks with super high end equipment going out into a woodsball field only to wipe hits and overshoot newbies. I'd love to see players separated better ... by mechanical and electronic for example. Jerks on the field is the one think that keeps me away these days.

    Comment

    • rkjunior303
      I need this more than you
      • May 2003
      • 4029

      #3
      Paintball doesnt need to be saved. I'm happy with the way it is. I don't buy into the hype, I have great fields around me, and I can afford to play just about whenever I want.

      What is there to save?

      PBN Feedback AO Feedback eBay Feedback

      DIRTY ROTTEN SCOUNDRELS (Rob Kenny and Matt Bradley) LIVE @ www.djinnuendo.com TUES 2/8 - 8 to 10PM

      Comment

      • sbpyro
        Office Ninja
        • Jun 2003
        • 244

        #4
        Originally posted by Aslan

        I'll start...right now...you go to a field and the prices are reasonable...$15-20 for all day play. Some fields provide free air, some don't, sometimes it's dependant on events. But the real problem I have noticed has been paint. Many fields, especially indoor, charge outrageous amounts of money for a case of "their" paint and don't allow you to bring your own.

        What is your definition of outrageous?? $40-$60
        I've seen some fields charge $100+ for a case of paint.
        Case and point
        The best recreational paintball fields in New England since 1991. P&L Paintball offers the most unique playing experience around. From our two-story western Ghost Town to our wooded fields; we have something for everyone to play.


        But I'm guessing you weren't playing when it was around 90-100 a case when you bought it from your local stores. The quality of paint has gone up and the price has gone down. I remember starting playing and remembering how much $ I had shot out of a wgp hopper per game. And you were lucky if the paint was even half decent. Maybe we should jack the price of paint up to reduce the newbie electro invasion cuz when a case cost $100 each does 20 bps sound like a good idea
        Last edited by sbpyro; 06-08-2005, 02:29 PM.

        Comment

        • slasherdan
          Monkey's fling poo at me .
          • May 2003
          • 333

          #5
          Yeah I wish paint at my feilds was $40-$60 a case ...

          I get a case for $80 = pre-pay and $90 to $100 on day of purchases.

          Granted the number of BYOP in my area has started to go up.

          Aslan ... if you're paying $40 to $60 for paint at your feild and the admission is $10 to $15 then count yourself lucking.
          AO-IL

          Ash:
          "Alright you Primative Screwheads, listen up .... See this?? This is my BOOMSTICK!!!!"

          "Well hello Mister Fancy Pants. I've got news for you pal, you ain't leading but two things right now: Jack and **** ... Jack left town."

          ATC Paintball Factory Team Member.
          www.atcpaintball.com

          Comment

          • dolphin1823
            Former Mag Owner
            • Jan 2001
            • 127

            #6
            I believe the main factor thats going to keep paintball growing and more popular are all the field owners. They have the opportunity to introduce paintball to new players every week, and its up to them to try to make new players - repeat players. Decent prices, a good varity of fields, a good reffing staff and good rental equipment.
            -Keep paint prices resonable, paint is usually the main money maker for fields and around me in Illinois paint ranges from $80 - $100 for non-member cases. I think $80 - $90 is fair, $100 is to much.
            -The staff should be well trained, should be able to split up teams to make as even as possible and shouldn't play favorites, also should be able to tell if a electro-marker is set for ramping or bust modes.
            - Play a varity of games on different fields, if possible
            - try to get decent rental equipment - there's got to be somthing better that those yellow field piranhas. And for heaven sakes get more chronographs and if you have a chrono station have some allen wrenchs on cables for people to adjust their markers.

            I've been playing for 13 years, been to good and bad fields and some great fields with bad management. There are some fields close to me that I won't ever go to again becasue of saftey issues, poor refs, high prices and it seemed like the staff couldn't care less if we had fun, had that been my first experience I may not have played anymore. On the other hand I'll drive 60-90 minutes to go to a field that's good.

            Comment

            • slasherdan
              Monkey's fling poo at me .
              • May 2003
              • 333

              #7
              Originally posted by dolphin1823
              -Keep paint prices resonable, paint is usually the main money maker for fields and around me in Illinois paint ranges from $80 - $100 for non-member cases. I think $80 - $90 is fair, $100 is to much.

              I've been playing for 13 years, been to good and bad fields and some great fields with bad management. There are some fields close to me that I won't ever go to again becasue of saftey issues, poor refs, high prices and it seemed like the staff couldn't care less if we had fun, had that been my first experience I may not have played anymore. On the other hand I'll drive 60-90 minutes to go to a field that's good.
              Hey Dolphin ....
              I grew up in Crystal Lake and used to play in all the back woods .... What fields do you go to out there???

              I usually head out to paintball sams in WI, CPX, Realms of Ruin, and I tried Sudden Impact a few months ago.

              I wanted to try Operation Paintball but it looks like they've been closed for a while now.
              AO-IL

              Ash:
              "Alright you Primative Screwheads, listen up .... See this?? This is my BOOMSTICK!!!!"

              "Well hello Mister Fancy Pants. I've got news for you pal, you ain't leading but two things right now: Jack and **** ... Jack left town."

              ATC Paintball Factory Team Member.
              www.atcpaintball.com

              Comment

              • BuyMyMag
                God Bless Our Troops
                • Apr 2005
                • 371

                #8
                One thing i feel can help paintball is seperating the groups of players. Don't let the tournament players play against the rec ballers, unless the rec ballers ask them to play. I don't think it's fair when i see a rookie team vs some first time rec ballers. I recently played at a field in my area where the team that is being sponsored by that field refs for free. I went on a sunday, and there wasn't many people. We were doing even teams against the tournament players, and it really wasn't that much fun. I didn't want to play against them, but you know where peer pressure comes in... I think the refs should be there to ref, and i feel that seperating the groups would make it a lot more fun for everyone.

                Comment

                • SlartyBartFast
                  The Flying Scotsman
                  • Jun 2002
                  • 2940

                  #9
                  Originally posted by sbpyro
                  What is your definition of outrageous?? $40-$60
                  I've seen some fields charge $100+ for a case of paint.
                  Or, $210 at my closest indoor field.

                  But, it isn't an easy business to run. You need a very high turnover in both players and paint to pay rent and the utility bill. THEN you have salaries to worry about.

                  But I find it rediculous when paint is 5 times the price compared to the proshop "nextdoor".
                  Last edited by SlartyBartFast; 06-08-2005, 02:57 PM.

                  Comment

                  • Aslan
                    Don't Ban Me...Love Me
                    • May 2005
                    • 954

                    #10
                    Originally posted by sbpyro
                    What is your definition of outrageous?? $40-$60
                    I've seen some fields charge $100+ for a case of paint.
                    Case and point
                    The best recreational paintball fields in New England since 1991. P&L Paintball offers the most unique playing experience around. From our two-story western Ghost Town to our wooded fields; we have something for everyone to play.


                    But I'm guessing you weren't playing when it was around 90-100 a case when you bought it from your local stores. The quality of paint has gone up and the price has gone down. I remember starting playing and remembering how much $ I had shot out of a wgp hopper per game. And you were lucky if the paint was even half decent. Maybe we should jack the price of paint up to reduce the newbie electro invasion cuz when a case cost $100 each does 20 bps sound like a good idea
                    I agree with you about trying to get rid of electros...but that's not going to happen...it's just going to continue to make paintball non-attainable for players on a budget...the rich kids will still get the electros.

                    You act like $100 for a case of paint is normal. That's sad. Do you realize that I've seen a case of Blaze for less than $40 online (free shipping)? All that is, is a field trying to make more money...the cost of 2000 rounds of Blaze is probably <$25...probably closer to $21-$24 depending on store volumes. That means you are paying a 400% mark-up. Margins like that will only discourage players by making a day of paintball $200. You can join a bowling league for that and play for months...a hockey season runs $300-400. $200/day is unrealistic and rediculous...shame on them. They're only hurting themselves in the long run...

                    Comment

                    • SlartyBartFast
                      The Flying Scotsman
                      • Jun 2002
                      • 2940

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Aslan
                      All that is, is a field trying to make more money...
                      Easily said. But it might be the field just trying to survive.

                      But, I don't understand why the prices have to be as high as they are....

                      Comment

                      • Target Practice
                        irc.zirc.org:6667 = chat!
                        • Nov 2003
                        • 3180

                        #12
                        You know, if paintball is going to die, why don't we just...

                        LET. IT. DIE.


                        "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." --Henry Louis Mencken.

                        Comment

                        • dolphin1823
                          Former Mag Owner
                          • Jan 2001
                          • 127

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Aslan
                          I agree with you about trying to get rid of electros...but that's not going to happen...it's just going to continue to make paintball non-attainable for players on a budget...the rich kids will still get the electros.

                          You act like $100 for a case of paint is normal. That's sad. Do you realize that I've seen a case of Blaze for less than $40 online (free shipping)? All that is, is a field trying to make more money...the cost of 2000 rounds of Blaze is probably <$25...probably closer to $21-$24 depending on store volumes. That means you are paying a 400% mark-up. Margins like that will only discourage players by making a day of paintball $200. You can join a bowling league for that and play for months...a hockey season runs $300-400. $200/day is unrealistic and rediculous...shame on them. They're only hurting themselves in the long run...
                          I think $100 is to high, $80 is pretty good, but paintball fields need to make money to stay open, other wise we've go noware to play. 90% of the fields are only open on weekends, that's two days to make enough money to cover all the expenses, not only paying the Refs, but buying supplies upkeep of equipment (rental gear, air stations) , paying for insurance and the rent for the land or property taxes if by chance the field owns the land. What if there is a rained out weekend, hardly anyone plays and up in the northing states, Illinos, Wisconsin, Indiana, most of the fields are only open 9 months a year.

                          Comment

                          • Aslan
                            Don't Ban Me...Love Me
                            • May 2005
                            • 954

                            #14
                            Business

                            Originally posted by SlartyBartFast
                            Or, $210 at my closest indoor field.

                            But, it isn't an easy business to run. You need a very high turnover in both players and paint to pay rent and the utility bill. THEN you have salaries to worry about.

                            But I find it rediculous when paint is 5 times the price compared to the proshop "nextdoor".
                            Business is a tricky thing. My take on it is that I'd rather charge $5 and have 20 people show up than charge $20 and have 5 people show up. Sometimes volumes are better than dollars because it increases your customer base. Those fields that charge $100 for a case of paint at the field, how much do they charge for it in their store? If it's $100...they'll only be selling it to players going to their field the following weekend...and that's not good business. People wonder why stores are struggling...it's simple...everything is overpriced. A person goes to Wal-Mart and sees a Tippmann 98 for $119 on sale and PMI paint for $40 a case. Then they go to a paintball store and the same gun is $219 by itself and the paint is $60/case. I understand it's often times hard to compete with Wal Mart volumes...but from a consumer standpoint...in an age when almost anything can be done online...what do you (the paintball store) really offer your customers? It used to be variety, quality, and knowledge. But I've seen less knowledgeable store clerks, empty display cases, and cheaper and cheaper paint going for more and more $$$.

                            Comment

                            • Jaan
                              It's Pronounced *John*

                              • Apr 2005
                              • 1310

                              #15
                              Originally posted by sbpyro
                              What is your definition of outrageous?? $40-$60
                              I've seen some fields charge $100+ for a case of paint.
                              Case and point
                              http://www.pnlpaintball.com/2003-p&l...elds-main.html
                              I beleive that outdoor field used to be called "Paintball Heaven" when it was owned by someone else ... they used to charge outragous prices to play there, and I know a lot of newbies who felt burned thier first time out. That place discouraged a lot of new players in the old days )c:

                              But I'm guessing you weren't playing when it was around 90-100 a case when you bought it from your local stores. The quality of paint has gone up and the price has gone down.
                              Don't forget, 10 years ago a case of paint was 2500 rounds. A case of ProBall was about $90. At that price, it was $.036 a ball, and today for Marballizer at $60 a case it's $.03 a ball. It's not that big of a difference. A case of marballizer would now be about $75 for 2500. Cheaper and better yes, but not by a whole lot.

                              And back them my local field charged $140 a case ... ouch! The first day I played there I shot a whole case

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