Jury Duty vs. Paintball

[XtremeC]

thats how i look at it too, maybe thats why canada has such a ****ty army... i aint getting shot by going to fight in another coutry fighting a war to free other countries of dictatorship and stuff like that.. haha doesn't affect me any if i don't do my duty as a citizen so why bother.. i could even cut down 10 trees a day for 10 years and it still wont have a big impact on anything..

[shartley]

And about jury duty as a duty that you are doing for your country? That is the most dumbest thing i ever heard.

This thing of doing your duty for your country is so dumb since you are not doing it for your country you are doing it for some stupid politician who doesnt care if you die doing it. Unless your country is getting invaded now that is were you do your duty to your country and home.

[warbeak2099]

Yes, Israel is also hated for the whole Jewish vs Muslim thing as well. I'm pointing out the econimical side of things. I wasn't talking about Israel's ability to defend against terrorism. I respect them very much for what they put up with and actually do get through. I was talking about the fact that Israel is a free market economy and very progressive as is Turkey.

I'm looking at the thing in a realistic sense. Will we ever find the wmd's? No, they've obviously been destroyed before we could get to them. Unless you're completely naive, you've gotta know that they aren't there anymore. But do we have a chance to turn the region around. Past attempts have failed because they were all about imperialising the region. We're actually conducting this with creating a succesful economy for the countries themselves in mind. Not using them as colonies to make money for us. That's the difference. We've actually built up a lot of momentum. Unlike what the media would have you think, neither Iraq nor Afghanistan are anywhere near becoming a Vietnam. See in Vietnam it was screw up after screw up. In the middle east right now, we're doing pretty well. Yea, there are insurgents. Guess what, there were insurgents in post wwii germany. They were called the wolf packs. We certainly got that country on its feet. People just need to stop being so ignorant. They also need to stop believing every peice of garbage the media feeds down their throats. The fact of the matter is, if we keep going and stick to it, we can create a basis for a succesful group of free market based nations in the middle east. If we give up, then the countries that we've already turned around will go right back to poverty and dictatorships. We've got the ability to do it, we need the will power too. The bleeding heart liberals in this country aren't exactly helping...

[Athius]

The US without and army? Maybe will give out a good example and a better economy billions of dollar goes to the armed forces but well an empire needs an army to back it up.
You will defend yourself and your country even if everyone is unarmed and with no army hey the iraq people are defending themselves quiet well.
Convince other countries you know what? Everyone has the choice to believe what they want to believe maybe you could share your ideas but you cant change their ideas. An about iraq no one has ever changed their ideals for thousands of years hell not even the romans could change them and they were one of the most powerful empires in the world.

If politicians care about their soldiers why would they start a war?

I know I have a duty to my family and my life. Duty for my country? Hmm as far as i know i dont really have a country well i live in a colony but then again i am an american citizen. So my duty is to fight a war that has nothign to do with me? No i wont fight it because it doesnt have to do anything with me.

And about jury duty i wont do it becuase i think the legal system doesnt work.

[rkjunior303]

It's your civil duty to serve. If you ignore it, they will literally send a court officer to your house and serve you with a summons.... It is illegal for your work to not reimburse you for the time... Also, if you do serve, you only get paid $50 a day if it's over 3 days of service -- not $15 a day.

[frop]

The US without and army? Maybe will give out a good example and a better economy billions of dollar goes to the armed forces but well an empire needs an army to back it up.
You will defend yourself and your country even if everyone is unarmed and with no army hey the iraq people are defending themselves quiet well.
Convince other countries you know what? Everyone has the choice to believe what they want to believe maybe you could share your ideas but you cant change their ideas. An about iraq no one has ever changed their ideals for thousands of years hell not even the romans could change them and they were one of the most powerful empires in the world.

If politicians care about their soldiers why would they start a war?

I know I have a duty to my family and my life. Duty for my country? Hmm as far as i know i dont really have a country well i live in a colony but then again i am an american citizen. So my duty is to fight a war that has nothign to do with me? No i wont fight it because it doesnt have to do anything with me.

And about jury duty i wont do it becuase i think the legal system doesnt work.

:sigh:

[shartley]

The US without and army? Maybe will give out a good example and a better economy billions of dollar goes to the armed forces but well an empire needs an army to back it up.

You will defend yourself and your country even if everyone is unarmed and with no army hey the iraq people are defending themselves quiet well.

Convince other countries you know what? Everyone has the choice to believe what they want to believe maybe you could share your ideas but you cant change their ideas. An about iraq no one has ever changed their ideals for thousands of years hell not even the romans could change them and they were one of the most powerful empires in the world.

If you have to ask that, you need to educate yourself before entering into any intelligent conversation about the topic. This is not just about Iraq, but about the world.

If politicians care about their soldiers why would they start a war?-

I know I have a duty to my family and my life. Duty for my country? Hmm as far as i know i dont really have a country well i live in a colony but then again i am an american citizen. So my duty is to fight a war that has nothign to do with me? No i wont fight it because it doesnt have to do anything with me.

And about jury duty i wont do it becuase i think the legal system doesnt work.

[Yamz]

The last thing I am going to say is not going to be directed at any one person. If you believe a system does not work but you take no part in it, to include providing your own ideas on making it better than you are as much at fault for why the system does not work as the people who have made the decisions to cause you to think a system does not work in the first place.

[Southparkrocks]

Older generation as in WWII/Korea Generation or the Vietnam Hippy bastard generation...

[shartley]

Older generation as in WWII/Korea Generation or the Vietnam Hippy bastard generation...

[Lohman446]

Yes, Israel is also hated for the whole Jewish vs Muslim thing as well. I'm pointing out the econimical side of things. I wasn't talking about Israel's ability to defend against terrorism. I respect them very much for what they put up with and actually do get through. I was talking about the fact that Israel is a free market economy and very progressive as is Turkey.

I'm looking at the thing in a realistic sense. Will we ever find the wmd's? No, they've obviously been destroyed before we could get to them. Unless you're completely naive, you've gotta know that they aren't there anymore. But do we have a chance to turn the region around. Past attempts have failed because they were all about imperialising the region. We're actually conducting this with creating a succesful economy for the countries themselves in mind. Not using them as colonies to make money for us. That's the difference. We've actually built up a lot of momentum. Unlike what the media would have you think, neither Iraq nor Afghanistan are anywhere near becoming a Vietnam. See in Vietnam it was screw up after screw up. In the middle east right now, we're doing pretty well. Yea, there are insurgents. Guess what, there were insurgents in post wwii germany. They were called the wolf packs. We certainly got that country on its feet. People just need to stop being so ignorant. They also need to stop believing every peice of garbage the media feeds down their throats. The fact of the matter is, if we keep going and stick to it, we can create a basis for a succesful group of free market based nations in the middle east. If we give up, then the countries that we've already turned around will go right back to poverty and dictatorships. We've got the ability to do it, we need the will power too. The bleeding heart liberals in this country aren't exactly helping...

Well I respect your logic... I ask you for the historical example of successful influence on a government in the middle east long term when that government was a change from what had been there before the invading/occupying force had got there. More to the point of successful western or European influence...

[warbeak2099]

But we aren't an invading or occupying force as the others were. The British and French were invaders. They were taking over the country, not liberating it. This situation in the middle east parrellels not with British colonization, but with the Allied rebuilding of Germany after WWII. We aren't colonizing these countries, we're helping them establish a succesful government for themselves. We aren't shoving one down their throats. For the most part they're doing a great job establishing their own democratic government. Again, that's not what the news reports but it helps to know/be related to someone in the military. My uncle is the skipper of a Frigate in the Navy and he keeps me pretty well informed. He's a more reliable source than CNN lol.

[Lohman446]

But we aren't an invading or occupying force as the others were. The British and French were invaders. They were taking over the country, not liberating it. This situation in the middle east parrellels not with British colonization, but with the Allied rebuilding of Germany after WWII. We aren't colonizing these countries, we're helping them establish a succesful government for themselves. We aren't shoving one down their throats. For the most part they're doing a great job establishing their own democratic government. Again, that's not what the news reports but it helps to know/be related to someone in the military. My uncle is the skipper of a Frigate in the Navy and he keeps me pretty well informed. He's a more reliable source than CNN lol.

Interesting concept however its historically wrong (in my opinion). Let me put out these counter examples. The overthrow of the Iraqi government in the 50s by the Bathist party because they felt it was a "puppet" to the British even though it was in theory independent. The late 70's turmoil in Iran when it was felt the government was too friendly to the west.

And yes, I enjoy conversations such as these, even if this may not be the right place

[warbeak2099]

Oh so do I. I usually find myself talking to adults at functions and stuff because other 17yo's don't usually get into this sort of thing.

Now, while also looking back at failures to establish succesful governments in these countries makes one uncertain whether it can ever happen, to me it means it CAN happen. If we learn by this myriad of mistakes, we can do this the right way and establish a succesful democracy and succesful free market economies in the region. Remember, to better understand history is to be better prepared for the future. I think we're doing a good job of that. The Iraqi government seems to be doing very well right now. I know that the liberal media makes it look like the insurgents are in control, but they aren't. They are in fact rapidly losing power every day. May not seem like it on the homefront, but we're no where near another Vietnam. Don't ever look to the media as a reliable source for news. They're more like a source of entertainment lol.

[Lohman446]

Oh so do I. I usually find myself talking to adults at functions and stuff because other 17yo's don't usually get into this sort of thing.

Now, while also looking back at failures to establish succesful governments in these countries makes one uncertain whether it can ever happen, to me it means it CAN happen. If we learn by this myriad of mistakes, we can do this the right way and establish a succesful democracy and succesful free market economies in the region. Remember, to better understand history is to be better prepared for the future. I think we're doing a good job of that. The Iraqi government seems to be doing very well right now. I know that the liberal media makes it look like the insurgents are in control, but they aren't. They are in fact rapidly losing power every day. May not seem like it on the homefront, but we're no where near another Vietnam. Don't ever look to the media as a reliable source for news. They're more like a source of entertainment lol.

I agree that there will be a government in place when we leave, and it will be democratic. However, I don't think, without intervention from us, that there will be the same type of government there 50 to 100 years from now. I think history teaches that, though I question if the insurgent problem will ever be gone...