Why is Ramping Good?

[SlartyBartFast]

Good points from RRfireblade, r-unit, and Chronobreak.

But, they sidestepped the instructions. No discussion of cheating, the situation IS ideal. All players get tournament supplied markers set to the same thing.

The dastardly reasoning behind this line of questioning is the following:

To prove a hypothesis or come to a conclusion you have to test a theory with all other variables fixed and only the variable being tested changing.

So, if we
- decide what ramping does/does not do.
- decide if it's good/bad for the ideal game.
- decide if it's feasible.

It's only at the last point that issues of what the rules should be, what the punishments are, and how easy it is to cheat come into play.

Personally, I think the game was more fast paced and had more movement back when I was out in the woods with a Splatmaster. In 10 on 10 the games weren't that much longer as the objective of hanging the flag was actually more important than total eliminations.

But now I'm breaking my own rules and changing the topic.

[RRfireblade]

First off, 'Ideal' is a waste of a discussion cause it proves and therefore changes nothing.

Second, Ramping was implimented for ONE REASON and one reason only, to limit the option for cheating in the Pro leagues which has been shown to be a complete and utter failure.

Lastly, you wnat to see the difference, go play Pump on Pump speedball for a day. It's the closest thing to 'ideal' your going to find. :)

The simple fact is ROF makes a difference, a big difference and always has. The game started with pumps and single shots and as people found ways to gain ROF , they also gained an advantage. The sport had no choice but to follow the leaders of the game on a competitive level. It's continued like that right up to now, constantly chasing the advantages gained by ROF until we reached the point that humans were the final limit therefore, on the competitive level 'humans,who hate to admit they have any limits, found a way to cheat thier own limitations until that was completely out of hand. Tourny officials and promoters, in an efffort to stop the massive bleeding cut off thier own heads and allowed ramping in a blind attempt to limit the cheating they refuse to take the required steps to stop and now don't have the brains to see there mistake or the balls to do what it takes to fix it.

So....

That's as 'ideal' as it gets.

[NukeGoose]

I don't like ramping. It leads to people getting overshot, and takes a lot of skill out of running and shooting, as well as shooting off-handed.

However-

There are enough dishonest cheaters in the world that there's no way to enforce a strict semi-only environment. It's very hard to tell if someone's pulling 14/sec and a bit of bounce is adding 2 or 3 shots/sec. 15 BPS semi-only would be fine with me, but most people want a trade-off of some sort for fewer balls per second coming out (even though I don't know of many people who can or do legally pull over 15/sec during a game), and so we have PSP style ramping.

Whether it's good or bad for the game is up to the players - some people don't mind getting shot 5+ times every game, some do. Some feel that the ease of putting much more paint than usual in the air adds to the excitement. It's important to remember that paintball is still a game, and anything - including ramping - is good as long as everyone playing enjoys it.

[SlartyBartFast]

The simple fact is ROF makes a difference, a big difference and always has.

Yes. But why abandon ROF as a skill?

Don't other shooting sports have trigger travel and pull weight standards?

I understand the move to allow ramping in the "pro" levels was aimed at eliminating cheating. IMO, it was just sticking thier heads in the sand and pretending to address the issue.

Until some serious enforcement at the equipment end is implemented, cheating will always be rampant at the "pro" levels.

Thanks to the Fanboys and the culture that endorses and even applauds cheating, the firing modes were all brought to regular play by the colusion, participation, and even ignorance of the manufacturers. Paintballers were sold the myth that they needed to be able to fiddle with every last little adjustable variable in software code.

[Spacemanvic]

Which, IMO is a HUGE negative for the sport.

Competition isn't about levelling the playing field for the new guys.

If you don't have the shooting skills, why the heck should you be given a free pass in a shooting sport?

QFT

[Lohman446]

The simple fact is ROF makes a difference, a big difference and always has. :

I think this is true when you compare 1BPS to 2 or 3BPS but I think the "big" differenc is overstated when comparing say 5+ vs 15BPS... I don't think its as big a deal as people would like to think it is

[WARPED1]

You are all missing the point that PB is run by big business and is driven by paint sales. Even on the rec level, heck even the "outlaw" fields have to have paint to play! Money makes the world go 'round, PB is no longer the friendly little game where a bunch of people just hanging out playing on thier friends fathers land. The markup on guns is very tiny, for example, a Proto is $799 new now, but stores pay $550. A good deal, but a tiny markup.
It's both good and bad about this, I like the recognition, but the big business kind of sucks.







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[buzzboy]

Ramping is not a good thing.

When the noob players come up from backyard woodsball(like me) they don't need that 15 bps. It makes them worse players in the longrun. If you start playing with a pump or a true semi you learn how to play the game and how to lay down paint when nessasary and when/how to move. With ramping the noobs move up into speedball and they don't know how to play. All they have to do is lay down paint with the ramping boards. It's just stupid. The group of kids I play with all play semi. A few have electros but they only use semi mode. We actually pick shots and use stealth and move around. We play to use less and less paint because paint ain't cheap. Thats the way paintball should be played. Not just get a gun that can cheat and go throw paint at each other with it.

My opinion and please don't flame me.

[A.T.S]

Sorry I will not fallow the rules. After reading the discussion so far, I think the title of this thread should be: " Why stock class paintball is so kool."

[68magOwner]

clarification- my post was to show that ramping, sucks for players who are actually talented with their gun skills, because, now stuff they they took time to master/got good at, can be done by any kid walking on the field.

I think ramping, to an extent, has taken the game, and preety much made it more luck of who can land a shot on the oppenent as much as it is actual skill.

Yes i use psp ramping when applicable, no i do not like it nor do i like my opponents having it, yes i would rather play straight up semi knowing that there is going to be the occasional un-capped ramping marker on the field, no i cant do nothing about it.

[GordDesigns]

A; one pull one shot

I just remember that most of the people who started playing, did so at a field that rented just semi's.
It was fun and challanging to go play, you had to play better. :) Not shoot faster that the other guy/girl to win.
I will agree that the ramping is interesting, but..... I see it as a way to sell more paint.

How does it really improve your game?
Does it make you duck faster?
Or hide behind that bunker longer?
Or you can't play/practice as long as you want too because, your broke from buying paint?

My 2 cents

[Conversekidz]

ramping has made me lazy.....honestly.


Why work at walking a trigger fast when you can do the same with one finger....

[Blazestorm]

If you guys were at teh Chicago open you would of seen what I'm talking about.

No one moves off the break, they almost never go past the 40 off the break. They all just sit back and shoot. Game are basically won by each team sitting there and shooting at eachother till 1 guy is left on the other side, then they move up. The games were a bore, and very little bunkerings and such. Paintball has gotten really defensive, just because it's now possible for anyone to rail on their marker. More action my ***.

You must have been watching 5man not X-ball.

Watch XSV vs. Naughty Dogs or something... now try to tell me that.

[can'tthink of1]

You must have been watching 5man not X-ball.

Watch XSV vs. Naughty Dogs or something... now try to tell me that.

RL vs Miami was where it was at, I have to say. RL rolled down the feild, I loved it. I think one or 2 of them were using semi too.

But in all seriousness, I was watching X-ball, and it's what I saw. And same thing in 5-man if it matters... It was like the same thing everywhere. The bigger names were better about it, but not very much so, and sometimes, they played super defensive too.

[Blazestorm]

It depends on whats happening. Maybe you're up a few points and want to keep the lead or run the clock down... play defensive...

It really all depends. People can't be super aggressive, every game, all the time. It can happen, but I think for the most part Playing 18-20 points worth of games in a 32 minute period of playing time. Is a bit more than 90 times 20 games... seconds of game time per point. Compared to 420 seconds worth x 8 games in prelims in 7man NPPL. :)

There's more paintball, more fast paintball in x-ball.