Support Your Local Cheater

[yakitori]

I <3 AO

What gun was "prized" for being able to shoot 26bps?

That wasn't legal though was it? No...

What gun had the awesome "feature" of Hybrid Mode that people BRAGGED about. That was worse then ramping, because it actually came with the gun.

Honestly. Everyone posting here is narrow-minded. I bet half of you don't even play more than once a month and talk **** on the internet because you know you're behind a screenname.

I play in ramp all day long, everyone knows it. It's accepted at my home field to play in PSP, nobody has gotten overshot or hurt from it. Most people get are 3-4 hits on them tops, usually just one. I remember playing at an indoor field with my angel speed bouncing at 20bps, the refs saw it and didn't care. Both these fields are safe places to play at. I can shoot 16-18bps legally. But it's 100x easier to do it with ramp.

It makes the game more intense, you can't make bunkers you used to make unless you're running harder and faster. More people are able to live behind their guns running and shooting. My friend can run and gun to the snake and make it in every-time, he's not that fast at all, but he's able to put the 2-4 people into their bunkers while he's running and keep them in, then dive into the snake.

Ramping is here to stay, deal with it.

Agreed. Its funny everytime I make statements like that I get flamed though. I get ppl telling me they have no more respect for me when they never even had it to begin with, like it is supposed to make me feel bad or something.

I hear the statements all the time. The AIR valve recharges at 30+bps w/ o shootdown, its faster than any gun on the market.....etc. etc.....and then complain about others that believe in hype. Air valves are rated at 3000psi, and to get over 30+bps you are going to be running more pressure into the valve, of course it shoots faster......but it also costs a lot more air. Not only that, they are complaining or disagree with any other gun that can shoot fast by using bounce or ramping. Well, how do you think the mag got up to 30+bps?

A lot of ppl are always bragging about mags, but any other gun is garbage.

Ill prolly get flammed again for saying that.

[WARPED1]

I <3 AO

What gun was "prized" for being able to shoot 26bps?

That wasn't legal though was it? No...

What gun had the awesome "feature" of Hybrid Mode that people BRAGGED about. That was worse then ramping, because it actually came with the gun.

Honestly. Everyone posting here is narrow-minded. I bet half of you don't even play more than once a month and talk **** on the internet because you know you're behind a screenname.

I play in ramp all day long, everyone knows it. It's accepted at my home field to play in PSP, nobody has gotten overshot or hurt from it. Most people get are 3-4 hits on them tops, usually just one. I remember playing at an indoor field with my angel speed bouncing at 20bps, the refs saw it and didn't care. Both these fields are safe places to play at. I can shoot 16-18bps legally. But it's 100x easier to do it with ramp.

It makes the game more intense, you can't make bunkers you used to make unless you're running harder and faster. More people are able to live behind their guns running and shooting. My friend can run and gun to the snake and make it in every-time, he's not that fast at all, but he's able to put the 2-4 people into their bunkers while he's running and keep them in, then dive into the snake.

Ramping is here to stay, deal with it.

QFT.
Finally, someone else here makes sense, and even tasckles the hybrid issue of Emags!

[onedude36]

Ok, obviously people here are mistaking 'hey look how fast my gun can go' and 'hey watch me lane this guy with my 'uber gat'' The mag at 30 was for fun on open land. this is about ramping in games, big difference.

[minimag03]

Field owners that allow ramping are greedy and stupid. They allow ramping because they sell more paint that way. If anyone would get hurt playing and the insurence would find out...goodbye field.

[magman007]

for the record, there were tons of people who hated hybrid as well, i was one of them, cool to mess with, but tourny illegal, that totally sucked when trying to play to have to create your own switch or pull out the triggerpin

[68magOwner]

Field owners that allow ramping are greedy and stupid. They allow ramping because they sell more paint that way. If anyone would get hurt playing and the insurence would find out...goodbye field.

...not really, i dont use any more paint ramping than i do in semi, and with that said, hell, even the rental markers at the local field have ramping enabled. The field allows ramping because thats what their tournaments are played in, as well as many other local leagues. And, their insurance covers ramping, so, not a big deal.

ALSO, why would anyone be more prone to being hurt playing in PSP mode than they would in semi? Heck, i think they are more prone to be hurt in semi because there are many more bouncy markers used in semi play, ramping is controlled, bounce isnt always the same way.

Regardless, it is stupid that half the posts on the front page of AO are about ramping when im preety shure that probably less than 1/4 of AO actually plays with/agains ramping on a regular basis.

Ramping is not going to end paintball, stop *****ing and go play.

[can'tthink of1]

I <3 AO

What gun was "prized" for being able to shoot 26bps?

That wasn't legal though was it? No...

What gun had the awesome "feature" of Hybrid Mode that people BRAGGED about. That was worse then ramping, because it actually came with the gun.

Honestly. Everyone posting here is narrow-minded. I bet half of you don't even play more than once a month and talk **** on the internet because you know you're behind a screenname.

I play in ramp all day long, everyone knows it. It's accepted at my home field to play in PSP, nobody has gotten overshot or hurt from it. Most people get are 3-4 hits on them tops, usually just one. I remember playing at an indoor field with my angel speed bouncing at 20bps, the refs saw it and didn't care. Both these fields are safe places to play at. I can shoot 16-18bps legally. But it's 100x easier to do it with ramp.

It makes the game more intense, you can't make bunkers you used to make unless you're running harder and faster. More people are able to live behind their guns running and shooting. My friend can run and gun to the snake and make it in every-time, he's not that fast at all, but he's able to put the 2-4 people into their bunkers while he's running and keep them in, then dive into the snake.

Ramping is here to stay, deal with it.

Leave markers out of this. Anything and everything can ramp now, and that's what matters in this convo.

Ramping sucls first off. It makes games slower from what I've seen. (the entire Chicago open this past weekend) Teams will not move, they just sit back and shoot untill there are 2 players on the other team left, and even then they play super defensive. Its all BS. Running and gunning used to be a skill, now anyone can do it, thats crap. It just is there and evens up the skill between players on one aspect (where as other aspects remain, this is still a big one) Everyone is so freaking obsessed with shooting fast, and its because everyone else is shooting fast. It allows people with no skill to play back and lane away. People can now shoot and reload all while blazing away at their 15bps. ALmost anyone is going to take the easier path, one that makes the game that much easier allowing them to compete with people that would roll them normally.

And yes, ramping is here to stay... People always will take the easier route to shooting fast.

[tdogreb]

Guys this is not about ramping, this is about cheating. If your field allows ramping than ramp away. If your field allows wiping then wipe ,if your field allows a sniper to hide in the woods and shoot at the other team than get him out there. However if your field does not allow ramping and you are ramping then you are cheating, you might as well be wiping,your still having to cheat to stay in the game.

[MadPSIence]

ok well let's put it this way.. because officiating in paintball is weak and can't properly detect people with cheater guns.... enhanced firing modes ARE a problem behind cheating.

they go hand in hand.

[Blazestorm]

Explain to me how ramping makes me stay in the game longer?

I still have to know how to play, where to shoot, what to do. Ramping just makes this easier. That's it. It doesn't make you a better player. It doesn't make you harder to shoot. It doesn't make you invincible. It does nothing but make playing paintball easier.

Wiping. I've never done it, and never plan to. I will play on because I've lost games trying to see if it broke or not, so I will continue playing unless I can see that it broke or a ref pulls me.

[ojhspyro89]

Sorry for all of the americans, but all foreign countries say american are fat and lazy. Now we are just getting the fat and lazy concept into paintball, ramping so you dont have to move your fingers that fast.

Im just kidding, i dont have a problem with ramping, i dont ramp nor feel the need to. Even in like a psp thingie i dont think id ramp, no need to only shoot 9 bps when i can actually shoot 12-14.

[68magOwner]

Even in like a psp thingie i dont think id ramp, no need to only shoot 9 bps when i can actually shoot 12-14.

what are you talking about? PSP ramping is 15bps, not 9, and, your not allowed to shoot oever that limit (or have your marker capable of exceding the 15bps limit) unless its mech. SO, ramp to 15, or TRY to shoot 15 semi, you only choices there

[ShadowNife]

I can shoot 16-18bps legally. But it's 100x easier to do it with ramp.

I think that statement proves a major point of the anti-rampers. I'm not doubting you can move your fingers at 16-18 bps legally, but if you do, you have to concentrate on moving your fingers, keeping the rhythm going etc. It takes a lot of concentration just to do that for most players if your really trying to hit that bps. Add aiming and running into that, and running and gunning becomes much harder in semi-mode. You yourself stated it makes it 100x easier. It cheapens the game because it compensates for things players cannot do without a lot of practice and time. I agree with ojhspyro89 in saying that we are bringing the concept of a shortcut into paintball.

It makes the game more intense, you can't make bunkers you used to make unless you're running harder and faster. More people are able to live behind their guns running and shooting. My friend can run and gun to the snake and make it in every-time, he's not that fast at all, but he's able to put the 2-4 people into their bunkers while he's running and keep them in, then dive into the snake.

If im not mistaken, there is a very big contradiction in those few sentences, but correct me if I misunderstood you. First you state that ramping makes the game more intense because people can't make bunkers unless you run harder and faster. There's the first contradiction. If all thats happening is paint flying with no one moving since if you move you get hit, i dont see how it makes it more intense. Right after it, you state that your friend is now able to make bunkers even though he is slow because ramping allows him to keep people in their bunkers while he makes the snake. What i see is an example of where someone who originally did not have the ability to make the snake "artificially enhancing" his abilities through a chip and thereby making a previously near impossible move much easier. Again, correct me if my interpretation is wrong.

Yakitori.... the reason people "flame" you is because why bother coming here to try and "show us the light"? You know there are hard-core 'mag fans here, and we all know how the tests achieved the high bps etc. I actually have no idea how that has to do with cheating, or this side topic of ramping which you quoted.

I'm with magman007 and onedude36 in saying that I am one of those people that would strongly dislike the use of Hybrid mode in tournies and recball. I mean ramping and hybrid just to shoot off strings at the range or for fun is cool, but when in competition, both are the same to me in the sense that it cheapens the game.

Explain to me how ramping makes me stay in the game longer?

I still have to know how to play, where to shoot, what to do. Ramping just makes this easier. That's it. It doesn't make you a better player. It doesn't make you harder to shoot. It doesn't make you invincible. It does nothing but make playing paintball easier.

Ok, I'm going to make a slightly stretched analogy here, assuming you all have basic knowledge of first person shooter games like CounterStrike. I'm gonna liken ramping to wallhacking. Following your logic, in CS with wallhacks, you still have to know how to play, where to shoot, what to do. Wallhacking just makes this easier. Thats it. It doesn't make you a better player. It doesn't make you harder to shoot. It doesn't make you invincible. It just makes playing CS easier. But its considered a hack and bannable because it's considered cheating. PSP is essentially like a CS tournament saying "ok we can't detect wallhacks, so therefore we will allow everyone to use wallhacks. If everyone has it it's ok." Thing is, wallhacks allows everyone to know where everyone is. It eliminates the skills of sneaking around, knowing how to listen for direction, etc. It makes it easier and doesnt make you invincible, but it does slow down the game alot because everyone just hides behind places they know you cant hit them and camp. Ramping I believe does the same thing for paintball. Looking at a pump game and a ramping semi game, I would seriously say that the pump game is much more fun to watch because of all the crazy moves people try due to the fact that they know the chance of them getting hit is lower. I'd say more movement and less paint flinging makes for an exciting game because we all know we watch the games for the moments where people go to bunker or a run through, not to watch a person snapeshoot for 5 mins and not hit anything.

- on ORIGINAL topic -

Ya i agree with the topic creator in that nowadays, society and the public do not like convicting high profile individuals, even when they are proven wrong beyond doubt. It's because they have a fan base and the league really doesn't want to be labeled as "the one who banned Greenspan from paintball forever" because all his fans would take the attitude that PSP was crap and not attend. Same thing happens with celebrities and such. Many of them get away with it because they are famous and the people who saw their "deeds" dont want to be known as the one who put America's favorite actress behind bars. The public will try to rationalize it until they can somehow accept it, however absurd it is.

[Blazestorm]

I think that statement proves a major point of the anti-rampers. I'm not doubting you can move your fingers at 16-18 bps legally, but if you do, you have to concentrate on moving your fingers, keeping the rhythm going etc. It takes a lot of concentration just to do that for most players if your really trying to hit that bps. Add aiming and running into that, and running and gunning becomes much harder in semi-mode. You yourself stated it makes it 100x easier. It cheapens the game because it compensates for things players cannot do without a lot of practice and time. I agree with ojhspyro89 in saying that we are bringing the concept of a shortcut into paintball.

Actually I do not need to concentrate on it, I'm able to run and shoot at 16bps quite well, ramping just makes it easier. I'd rather use ramping because I can concentrate on the game more. In tournaments I do shoot that fast and can adapt well enough.

If im not mistaken, there is a very big contradiction in those few sentences, but correct me if I misunderstood you. First you state that ramping makes the game more intense because people can't make bunkers unless you run harder and faster. There's the first contradiction. If all thats happening is paint flying with no one moving since if you move you get hit, i dont see how it makes it more intense. Right after it, you state that your friend is now able to make bunkers even though he is slow because ramping allows him to keep people in their bunkers while he makes the snake. What i see is an example of where someone who originally did not have the ability to make the snake "artificially enhancing" his abilities through a chip and thereby making a previously near impossible move much easier. Again, correct me if my interpretation is wrong.

If you're serious about the game and not afraid to make risks you will make those runs. In X-ball you don't have to worry about that death. In 7man every life counts. If in x-ball you have ramping and everyone is shooting 15bps at you constantly, it is going to make you have to work harder if you want to make the snake. What I was stating about my friend was not in X-ball, it was in basic 5/7man which tends to be a lot slower. In x-ball you wouldn't be able to do that at all. In 5/7man he's able to do it because there tends to be less people shooting off the break, if he can ramp, he can be one of those shooters. Sorry for not being more specific about what type of game I was talking about.

Yakitori.... the reason people "flame" you is because why bother coming here to try and "show us the light"? You know there are hard-core 'mag fans here, and we all know how the tests achieved the high bps etc. I actually have no idea how that has to do with cheating, or this side topic of ramping which you quoted.

I'm with magman007 and onedude36 in saying that I am one of those people that would strongly dislike the use of Hybrid mode in tournies and recball. I mean ramping and hybrid just to shoot off strings at the range or for fun is cool, but when in competition, both are the same to me in the sense that it cheapens the game.

The point is, nobody ever considered it "cheating" to use hybrid. It was known to be illegal but people still used it because it was just a flip of a switch. Some were honest and stuck with E, but I doubt everyone played in E all the time.

Ok, I'm going to make a slightly stretched analogy here, assuming you all have basic knowledge of first person shooter games like CounterStrike. I'm gonna liken ramping to wallhacking. Following your logic, in CS with wallhacks, you still have to know how to play, where to shoot, what to do. Wallhacking just makes this easier. Thats it. It doesn't make you a better player. It doesn't make you harder to shoot. It doesn't make you invincible. It just makes playing CS easier. But its considered a hack and bannable because it's considered cheating. PSP is essentially like a CS tournament saying "ok we can't detect wallhacks, so therefore we will allow everyone to use wallhacks. If everyone has it it's ok." Thing is, wallhacks allows everyone to know where everyone is. It eliminates the skills of sneaking around, knowing how to listen for direction, etc. It makes it easier and doesnt make you invincible, but it does slow down the game alot because everyone just hides behind places they know you cant hit them and camp. Ramping I believe does the same thing for paintball. Looking at a pump game and a ramping semi game, I would seriously say that the pump game is much more fun to watch because of all the crazy moves people try due to the fact that they know the chance of them getting hit is lower. I'd say more movement and less paint flinging makes for an exciting game because we all know we watch the games for the moments where people go to bunker or a run through, not to watch a person snapeshoot for 5 mins and not hit anything.

You're trying to compare someone shooting slightly faster than everyone else to wall-hacks in a first person tactical shooter. First counter-strike is nothing like paintball what so ever in any aspect. Maybe the "gun" part, but that's about it. PSP did catch bouncy and ramping guns all of the time. They decided instead of having the refs concentrate on catching cheater guns, they simply standardized it. Anyone who cheats can easily be heard now and can be checked with PACT timers. I played pump, it was rather boring. Nobody tried any crazy moves that you talked about. Most people ran to a bunker and sat there shooting. Some people would move then get shot because they didn't know how to snap shot. Honestly, go to paintballstar.com and watch the X-ball match between the two teams and tell me that is slow paced. Tell me that is 5 minutes of 2 people snap shooting. Try to tell me that is slow paintball. Because 5 years ago we were in the woods playing 25 minute games in 10 man, and some of those games STALEMATED.

- on ORIGINAL topic -

Ya i agree with the topic creator in that nowadays, society and the public do not like convicting high profile individuals, even when they are proven wrong beyond doubt. It's because they have a fan base and the league really doesn't want to be labeled as "the one who banned Greenspan from paintball forever" because all his fans would take the attitude that PSP was crap and not attend. Same thing happens with celebrities and such. Many of them get away with it because they are famous and the people who saw their "deeds" dont want to be known as the one who put America's favorite actress behind bars. The public will try to rationalize it until they can somehow accept it, however absurd it is.

Are you kidding? If I was a ref I would love to catch professional players cheating, They're caught all the time. What about the individual who caught Jeremy Salm in World Cup 2001? Guess what? He's now on the same team as Salm. Salm is the captain of Aftershock and Mr. U (The player on Ground Zero who caught him) is now a member of that team. I know for a fact that nobody is a hardcore Greenspan fan who goes to all of his events and watches just HIM play. Nobody would STOP going to PSP events because Greenspan was banned. And there's no reason to ban him for having an illegal marker, that's what penalties are for.

I honestly think you have no idea what you're talking about, and are going off what you read and see. Instead of seeing it from both perspectives like none of AO does.

I used to think ramping was stupid, now I've come to accept it after using it. It's not doing anything but making the sport better. Pretty soon it'll be legal to use PSP style ramping at fields. I don't doubt it.

http://media.paintballstar.com/moviesdl/pspchicago05/dynasty-xsv-chi05.wmv

Here's the final match between Dynasty And XSV where Dynasty won 15 - 3 ... 100* Weather... XSV got worked, even though they are my favorite team

[CoolHand]

OK, here are my thoughts, in no particular order:

Ramping. In theory, I don't like it. I want everyone to shoot semi only. Sounds great. In theory.

In practice however, when the field says semi auto, the players hear "uncontrolable bounce" so we get runaways, and people getting the living crap shot out of them. Now, we have ramping, same stupid fast ROF, but now when they stop physically pulling the trigger, 9 times out of 10, the marker stops firing. You don't lose your ROF by making your marker not bounce like a mofo, so people tune them down to where they should be. Thusly, there is way more control for the individual player.

Before ramping showed up around here, it was not uncommon for guys to take 6-15 hits if they ended up in the wrong place. Now, you hardly ever see anyone take more than three or four. The marker actually stops shooting when the player does.

I just played in a tourney a couple of weeks ago, 17 bps ramping. No way to check, so we actually played an unlimited ramping tourney. Not once did I get shot more than three times. AND, I didn't even see anyone take more than four or five (except when those two guys got into that fight, but that was under other than normal conditions).

I played that tourney with a Viking. WAS board, semi only, no cap. I can't muster over 14 bps on a very good day, so I was not up to everyone else's ROF.

Did that make a huge difference?

Off the break, a little. During the game? Not really.

I didn't feel out gunned, and I played like I always do (mediocre at best).

Did I use less paint? Not really. ~900 rounds in the games that I lasted long enough to do anything. One game I could have used about three more pods.

Other than that, it was the same as any semi tourney I've ever seen. The movement was the same, the bunker moves were the same, and the teams that were good still kicked our asses. Pretty much the status quo, IMO.

To sum up, ramping (in practice) I like. It makes the markers controlable again. And I like that.

Now, wiping, playing on, and outright butchered reffing? That's a whole different taco.

The wiping was not too bad when we played (at least I didn't see any, and I didn't really see any situations that couldn't have happened if they hadn't wiped). We didn't lose any games to cheating that I could see (we lost 'cause we sucked, as most people do).

Now, in the finals, I saw so much cheating that it wasn't even funny. They didn't even try to hide it. Wiping, playing on, and the refs killed so many calls as the night went on. They were getting tired and bored, and you could see that in their calls.

Letting guys play on with two or three obvious hits, or wiping hits for them.

Towards the end, they had the winner picked out already, and were doing whatever they needed to just get the games over with, and the prize sent off to the team they wanted it to go to.

It was so blatant and stupid as to make you wonder WTH was going on. Of course, this sort of thing doesn't set well with guys who've dumped nearly a grand's worth of paint to get to the finals, and the inevitable brawl broke out. That was kinda fun to watch.

We had fun, but it was a big cluster **** at the end, there is no polite way to put it. However, that didn't effect us at all, 'cause we didn't make it past the prelims, it just sucked to see it all go down the way it did.

There is a reason I would much rather watch tourney ball than play it, a few reasons actually:

1) I am fat and slow. Two things that don't go well with airball these days.
2) I am busy, and don't get to practice enough to be really good. Which leads to #3
3) I don't want to turn PB playing into a job too. PB is still fun for me, and I want it to stay that way.
4) I am grumpy, and being cheated against makes me very angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry.
5) I cannot stand the 13 yr olds who are too pussy to say anything to my face, but then retreat to their spool/table and talk crap about how much the fat guy sucks (see #4 above), even though I shot them out in the last game.
6) It costs way too much money to play that way. I get basically two games from a case. I can burn three to five cases in a long day, which gets expensive after a while. Rec ball I can use a case all day, maybe two if I splurge.

Hell, the only reason I played at all, was because we were a man short of five, and had already paid our entry fee (we had a guy PMS out on us at the last minute). When we couldn't fill the gap with anyone good, the fat guy stepped up. I did at least play better than the new guy. I guess there is some solice in that.

On a completely different note, sandbaggers piss me off too (almost as much as wipers). Stupid me, when I paid the entry fee, I assumed rookie/novice meant, you know, that we'd be playing rookie and novice teams. Wrong. At least three to five of the ten teams there were there were Amature A or B (and had been for a while) three or four years ago (and had been all the time since as well). Somehow that falls way past rookie in my book, but whatever, we still had fun (and with the way we play, that is all that matters ).

If you read all that, you deserve a .

That is all.

Shanks