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[tdogreb]

Blazestorm
I win Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Sammamish Washington
Posts: 3,378


Explain to me how ramping makes me stay in the game longer?

I still have to know how to play, where to shoot, what to do. Ramping just makes this easier. That's it. It doesn't make you a better player. It doesn't make you harder to shoot. It doesn't make you invincible. It does nothing but make playing paintball easier.

Wiping. I've never done it, and never plan to. I will play on because I've lost games trying to see if it broke or not, so I will continue playing unless I can see that it broke or a ref pulls me.




Blaze, if the rules say a gun can ramp up to 15 BPS but anything over that is illegal, and a player comes out of the box shooting 23+BPS(Therefore giving hisself an illegal edge over the other player) tell me how thats not cheating.

[Jonno06]

ramping keeps you in the game because now you are able to run and gun even if you're a front player.

if ramping makes paintball so much more easier, then why are you complaining about it?

and shooting over the rof cap in the tourny is cheating. thats why rage lost 100points and the player got a 12 game suspension....

[yakitori]

Blaze, if the rules say a gun can ramp up to 15 BPS but anything over that is illegal, and a player comes out of the box shooting 23+BPS(Therefore giving hisself an illegal edge over the other player) tell me how thats not cheating.

are you referring to the Dynasty player? That was NPPL and there is no 15bps rule if you are. If you arent refering to that, then nevermind.

[Lurker27]

You know. If you run the numbers, 15bps is right around the 100% certainty makr for laning people out. everything on top of that is gravy and intimidation, unless you want to get them twice in a static stream. Most players can get a 95% or so certainty stream going, 13bps-ish.

I think that ramping's biggest effect is psychological. Especially when its ramping them from a pulled 10bps to a 25bps mowing machine. Even with extremely quick gun movements, they're mostly just wasting paint. You aren't going to get laned where you wouldn't before, but you might get overshot more. Oh well. Bunker them when they're reloading.

My brother and I are going to Absolute Paintball in Maryland tomorrow. They let people use ramping. And, to prove a point, they're going to get a taste of this. Avg bps is 28ish, peaks right up to 33. And, whaddya know, its field legal.

http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=Angelchrono

Yes, That is a gun ripping so fast that the balls collide with each other in mid-air. Do I think that's safe? Not really, no. But its not that much worse than rebound ions.

And what's with the ASTM rules not affecting anything. Semi only is the only legit way to go, because eliminating a skillset isn't really cool...Why not give everyone something so they all run at the same speed. High level players developed walking skillz that are now irrelevant.

Yea, its 4AM here, so this post probably makes no sense.

Sorry.

[ultralight]

i don't really care all that much about ramping. mainly because i mostly face rec ballers who have just moved out of the woods and are shooting response/ e-grip a-5s. (whoever says that they aren't fast should tell that to the newb that caught 5 in the chest when he was bunkered)

as far as i see it there are two things wrong with ramping.

first, it is basically like steroids for your marker. no other professional sport allows for the use of steroids, or other performance enhancing drugs or equipment, in their rulebook. then again, it is easier for them to test for steroids.

second, NO enhanced firing modes are ASTM approved. i know, i know, many people would rather do something dangerous until it is proven unsafe rather than stop doing it until it is proven to be safe. but when, not if, a tragedy does occur, if it goes to court and it is found that the equipment was functioning as it was intended to in violation of the ASTM guidelines then the paintball industry is in for a world of legal hurt. the simple answer to this is to get the ASTM to do more testing and change their rules to include ramping up to 15 bps.

as for cheating in general and the praise of those who cheat... i find it sickening that non-pro players feel that it is ok to cheat "because the pros do". and i also think that it is sad that the"pros" feel the need to cheat to win.

why bother even playing if you are just going to cheat? why not just stand around and have judges time how fast and smooth you can wipe paint off of yourself? the creep with the best time and smoothest execution wins the cash prize.

[Beemer]

Yea, its 4AM here, so this post probably makes no sense.

same here and ya it did

i know, many people would rather do something dangerous until it is proven unsafe rather than stop doing it until it is proven to be safe.

Thats classic. Can I quote that for yakitori

_________________

[yakitori]

same here and ya it did



Thats classic. Can I quote that for yakatori

Thanks. ASTM has not "proven" ALL of their regulations/recommendations to be effectively safe have they. No. PPL still got injured back when paintball didnt use ramping. I play at my own risk. Do you?

If I take 20 balls in the mask from 5 feet away, Im not going to sue the field and industry, Im going to sue the jerk that maliciously assulted me. I will however complain to the field. ASTM also recommends that individuals be at least 14 years of age to even PLAY paintball, do ppl adhere to that? They also recommend that if your goggles are shot from closer than 10 feet or above 300fps that they are replaced immediately. Do you adhere to that?


The firing capabilities of todays markers was revisited by the ASTM, and these revisions were written to include ramping guns. The issue did not make it to ballot because of certain aspects of the revision was contested. Does that mean that the ASTM will NEVER allow ramping guns? No. It means that there were aspects of that particular revision that ppl contended. It will likely be revised and presented again where it will make it to ballot because so many leagues are ramping. The longer they ramp (to 15bps) they more likely ASTM will see that it is not all that unsafe.

Im saying that its the idiots behind a paintball marker that cause injuries, not ramping.

[Lohman446]

Thanks. ASTM has not "proven" ALL of their regulations/recommendations to be effectively safe have they. No. PPL still got injured back when paintball didnt use ramping. I play at my own risk. Do you?

You just do not get the idea of negligence do you. For some of us its not so much the safety concern - injuries are bound to happen and it is likely eventually there will be a tragic accident. Its almost unquestionable should a tragedy occur that there are going to be several people/promotors/players/manufacturers who are civilally negligent. I would argue that blatant violation of ASTM standards, without scientific evidence to support the safety of that violation, also brings up criminal negligence issues. "I play at my own risk" does not lessen this. If I go outside and a friend and I decide to duel with .44 magnums do you think telling the DA "he knew the risks" would make the DA decide to just let me go....

[yakitori]

If I take 20 balls in the mask from 5 feet away, Im not going to sue the field and industry, Im going to sue the jerk that maliciously assulted me. I will however complain to the field. ASTM also recommends that individuals be at least 14 years of age to even PLAY paintball, do ppl adhere to that? They also recommend that if your goggles are shot from closer than 10 feet or above 300fps that they are replaced immediately. Do you adhere to that?


The firing capabilities of todays markers was revisited by the ASTM, and these revisions were written to include ramping guns. The issue did not make it to ballot because of certain aspects of the revision was contested. Does that mean that the ASTM will NEVER allow ramping guns? No. It means that there were aspects of that particular revision that ppl contended. It will likely be revised and presented again where it will make it to ballot because so many leagues are ramping. The longer they ramp (to 15bps) they more likely ASTM will see that it is not all that unsafe.

YOU just dont get it. It will never hold up in court.

[Lohman446]

YOU just dont get it. It will never hold up in court.

What wouldn't? The negligence factor? I'm not willing to be the test case.... here's something you won't beleive. I don't think that ramping is anymore inherently unsafe than anything else we do in paintball - I just think it carries risks (negligence) that some other things do not.

BTW... I'm not under 14 nor do I actively allow anyone under 14 to play. I don't complain about it but I don't do it. I do not aim for the mask from less than ten feet away and it is my intent to shoot towards non "soft" areas (the back or torso). Intent means something, as does pattern of action. And I regularly (about once a month) replace my lenses, outside of ASTM standards but I'm not going to sue myself or be found negligent for injuries to myself. Its the others on the field I have to show concern for.

[yakitori]

What wouldn't? The negligence factor? I'm not willing to be the test case.... here's something you won't beleive. I don't think that ramping is anymore inherently unsafe than anything else we do in paintball - I just think it carries risks (negligence) that some other things do not.

BTW... I'm not under 14 nor do I actively allow anyone under 14 to play. I don't complain about it but I don't do it. I do not aim for the mask from less than ten feet away and it is my intent to shoot towards non "soft" areas (the back or torso). Intent means something, as does pattern of action. And I regularly (about once a month) replace my lenses, outside of ASTM standards but I'm not going to sue myself or be found negligent for injuries to myself. Its the others on the field I have to show concern for.

you spend 20 bucks a month on lenses? I probably need to replace mine soon too, but I dont do it once a month. I inpsect my lenses when I am cleaning after every weekend. I inpsect once a week, and replace as needed.

Anyway, I just dont see the extremely increased risk of injury as a DIRECT result of ramping as yourself and Jim Drew both say. JD says that 15bps rof is enough to knock someones mask off and put a couple shots in their temple causing unconciousness and possibly a coma. Have we seen that happen even at semi auto rates of fire 12-14bps or more? No. Have we seen that w/ ramping? no. As such, someones mask could be knocked off by some other cause, and get shot in the temple once w/ a pump. Its possible. Why arent ppl making up scenarios like that? Because it doesnt support their argument because they are likely against ramping for other reasons. If you went to the field w/ me and we were playing xball and ppl were ramping to 15bps, and you stared at the field in fright that you may be injured or injure someone and be held liable for criminal negligance, I would take you back to your house and drop you off, or tell you to play against ppl with rentals and gravity feed hoppers. I feel that anit rampers exagerate the risks to draw more attention to their argument. When there hasnt been any headline injuries DIRECTLY correlated to ramping to 15bps.

[Lohman446]

you spend 20 bucks a month on lenses? I probably need to replace mine soon too, but I dont do it once a month. I inpsect my lenses when I am cleaning after every weekend. I inpsect once a week, and replace as needed.

Yes I do, but I also feel $20 towards safety is relatively cheap

Anyway, I just dont see the extremely increased risk of injury as a DIRECT result of ramping as yourself and Jim Drew both say. .

YOu know how I complain you put words into my mouth. Let me requote part of what you responded to, you failed to read or understand, maybe I worded it wrong, but you say I state there is an extreme increased risk of injury, this is what I said, and you quoted.

here's something you won't beleive. I don't think that ramping is anymore inherently unsafe than anything else we do in paintball

What I do feel is an unacceptable risk to me is the what I see (and for the record my lawyer advises me of) as a greatly increased risk of criminal negligence if a tragedy should occur at my hands while I was using an enhanced firing mode without evidence of its safety with current ASTM standards. As for grouping me with JDs statements - please don't. I think the uncontrolled bounce that he made room for (Debounce 0) and marketed was/is more dangerous than any controlled ramping mode.

[yakitori]

In light of you saying I quoted the word extreme from you is absurd, but you sure are responding in a manner that makes it appear you feel it is extremely unsafe since you are afterall saying that you dont want to be criminally negligent. Criminal to me is extreme, Im sorry if you dont think so.\

And your argument has lead to the same dead end. If you feel criminally negligent about ramping, then dont play with ppl that ramp. Its like I say about the rising gas prices and americans w/ huge vehicles. Dont complain about a rising gas price, get a different vehicle or ride a bike (OT, afterall, they prolly voted for the moron that put them in that spot). Stand up for what you believe in Lohman. Refuse to lose and dont play with ppl that ramp. Infact, you should boycott all products that are capable of ramping, just because they dont adhere to ASTM standards. I will be more proud of you standing up for what you believe in instead of speaking one thing, and owning a proto matrix, or Ion, both of which are capable of ramping.