Ramping strategically misused and its downsides

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  • Lohman446
    Useful posts: 7
    • Jun 2003
    • 9315

    #1

    Ramping strategically misused and its downsides

    Edit: Before I get called on it. My view on ramping is this - I would gladly use ramping if I did not beleive that violation of ASTM standards put me in areas of criminal and civil negligence that I deem unacceptable. I do not beleive there is a moral problem with it being used within the rules of the game. I just will not accept the legal risks. [/Edit]

    I saw a player who beleives he is "gods gift to paintball" because he has a ramping (or bouncing, or whatever you want to call it) Angel that can put out a lot of paint. He is a better player than most people give him credit for, but not near the player he beleives himself to be. Regardless we were playing Sunday and I saw the worst use of ramping ever.

    They had pushed hard, and brought it to a 4 on 3 game that gave them a comfort zone to push. A couple lucky shots and we made it 3 to 2. The kid with the ramping Angel was in the left snake at the fifty, there was another player on the right tape behind two bunkers behind the fifty. We had players across the back standups, I was in the right stand up and we had a player in the center and left stand up.

    I decided I had to move up the field, and communicated accordingly across the field through relay calls so the other team did not hear them. Now, in theory our opponents had to simply stay crossed and divide the field. Our back right player would poke out and fire two balls down the right tape. The guy with the Angel would respond with 30 or so. In the time he fired those balls I would bump up, hidden from him. I was able to time them by the firing, the string of paint, and ramping - as the balls stopped I would bunker down and keep quiet.

    I would argue that his ramping encouraged him to shoot strings, even though he had no chance of shooting. His ramping allowed us to know where he was on the field, and for the most part where he was looking.

    My question is not of the advantages of ramping in a skilled players hands but the disadvantages it can cause to the player who uses it in an unskilled manner.
    "Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, nothing is going to get better. Its not" - Dr Suess
  • Resurection
    bringing the game back
    • Aug 2005
    • 923

    #2
    simply put: I have yet to see a situation where more than 5-7 balls at a time are any more effective than 30.

    I know the 'shock' factor of being behind a bunker being rained on, but still. A skilled and level-headed player would always use the situation you described as a way to overcome the overconfident ramping player.

    Comment

    • TheTramp
      Registered User
      • Jan 2001
      • 4019

      #3
      I see what you're saying Lohman but I think he would have rattled off a long string even if he didn't have ramping. Perhaps a little slower and perhaps a little shorter but I'd bet you could have used it the same way. It sounds like he's just the sort of player that does that. There are a lot of them.

      I'm not a big fan of ramping but I think this time it wasn't that much of a factor.
      "Relax. Don't worry. Have a Home Brew."
      -Charlie Papazian

      Feedback: http://www.automags.org/forums/showt...threadid=40134

      Comment

      • 68magOwner
        Registered User
        • May 2003
        • 3475

        #4
        worst 2 ramping markers i have ever seen were- an X-teammates angel (we eneded up cutting him because he just cheates way to much) that thing would be pushing 25+ bps at any given instance. I guess his halo was really fast, becaue i have shot/seen/experienced many ramping markers, and this thing was just exceptionally fast. I remember playing in a bunker behind him one game, and he just starts shooting (i was out shooting at the same time) and when i saw the ammount of paint just spewing from his barrel (not as in breaks, just, tons of balls) i was just like......i dunno, i just paused for a second like......theres no way. (we confronted him and had that fixed after that game, even if the reffs wernt gonna stop it, we wernt gonna let our teammate be doing that.

        And the other, was a ramping DM5 with the bradys "boost" hopper. I wasnt even aware the kid was ramping going into the first game with him, then once we started playing, he ended up in my mirror at our own 30's. I heard him start ripping and was just like.... he was shooting across the field at a teammate at our left 30, and i could just see the line of paint going across the field even from my odd perspective. After the game, the kid made no effort to deny he was ramping (not that anyone didnt know). This marker wasnt as fast as the x-teammates angel just because, trixes of course have slower cycle speeds. But, still jaw droppingly fast.

        Both of the formentioned players, i have seen shoot people 30+ times, shooting opponents enough to cause them to collapse and curl up into the fetal position. I believe that these are the only 2 examples of ramping that have generally been a hazard on the field that i have ever seen. Generally, even if people are ramping, theyre not really dangerous about it, and dont intentionally overshoot people to extremes. And, now with psp ramp shooting rules in place, it has preety much put a stop to all the super speed dangerous ramping. I think that with PSP ramp, players really arnt being overshot any worse than when playing semi (the one exception being when people are bunkered, because, you now pull the trigger 3 times at them, and your gonna hit em 9 times).

        I cant really say i have ever seen ramping be a disadvantage to any players (except for players who cant shoot while reloading, even with ramping, those kids are just bad). But, i dont necessarily see it as a tremendous advantage for some either.

        Comment

        • Miscue
          Super Moderator

          • Oct 2000
          • 7105

          #5
          I like it when people shoot a lot... it's easier to tell where they are and what they are doing.

          Comment

          • hitech
            Not a shedder of vortices
            • Nov 2001
            • 4775

            #6
            The paint pounding my bunker helps me identify what direction the opposing is shooting at me from. Also, they have to reload more often.

            Having a ramping marker probably does get some people to shoot to long to their disadvantage. It also can give them an advantage (more shoots at the target before it "disappears"). In the end, it probably evens out with regards to game play.

            I'm sure it contributes greatly to overshooting and heightened tensions on the field.




            Hey Hitech your starting to sound like me! - AGD
            Hitech is the man.... :eek: - Blennidae
            The only Hitech Lubricant

            Comment

            • wimag
              BEZERKERS
              • Aug 2001
              • 1334

              #7
              Originally posted by Lohman446
              Edit: Before I get called on it. My view on ramping is this - I would gladly use ramping if I did not beleive that violation of ASTM standards put me in areas of criminal and civil negligence that I deem unacceptable. I do not beleive there is a moral problem with it being used within the rules of the game. I just will not accept the legal risks. [/Edit]
              what legal risks you speak of ? what ASTM standard would you be violating ?
              BEZERKERS
              ALL MAG SHOOTING TEAM

              Comment

              • Lohman446
                Useful posts: 7
                • Jun 2003
                • 9315

                #8
                Originally posted by wimag
                what legal risks you speak of ? what ASTM standard would you be violating ?
                ASTM standards (industry accepted safety standards) expressly forbid enhanced triggers, very much one shot one pull. I beleive (arguably) that should the unfortunate happen there are severe criminal issues. I also beleive (I doubt anyone would argue here) that the civil issues are obvious.
                "Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, nothing is going to get better. Its not" - Dr Suess

                Comment

                • quik
                  I eat your unhappiness
                  • Jul 2003
                  • 1732

                  #9
                  I guess that yeah, in some cases, ramping can be a bad thing. But unfortunately, it seems like the good outweighs the bad, to most people anyways. I know usually, you should know where all the other teams players are, so giving up where your 'hidden' shouldnt matter, but I know the field your talking about, and it has many bunkers, so it could have worked to his advantage to turn that ramp off.

                  PS, who's the god of paintball :P?

                  > QUIKFLASH.COM
                  JOIN THE NINTENDO FUN CLUB TODAY MAC!

                  Comment

                  • Lohman446
                    Useful posts: 7
                    • Jun 2003
                    • 9315

                    #10
                    Originally posted by quik
                    I guess that yeah, in some cases, ramping can be a bad thing. But unfortunately, it seems like the good outweighs the bad, to most people anyways. I know usually, you should know where all the other teams players are, so giving up where your 'hidden' shouldnt matter, but I know the field your talking about, and it has many bunkers, so it could have worked to his advantage to turn that ramp off.

                    PS, who's the god of paintball :P?
                    Truman thinks he is, and occassionally we have to remind him he's not. Course.. when my desire to bunker him throws off how I play... LOL
                    "Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, nothing is going to get better. Its not" - Dr Suess

                    Comment

                    • Emag2005
                      Registered User
                      • Jan 2005
                      • 31

                      #11
                      I don't understand how peopel can ramp but i can not use hybrid mode (tournament). I think ramping is more deadly then hybrid. Yah i personally think ramping takes away from the game little bit.

                      Comment

                      • Maggot6
                        Registered User
                        • Aug 2004
                        • 1527

                        #12
                        I thought that ramping was a pretty good idea when mommy buys them the paint, for the exact reason you listed (lohmans origonal post) Whenever they are in their tunnel vision, you can practically walk around sometimes without them noticing.

                        Comment

                        • phantomhitman
                          ao's official bad guy
                          • Oct 2003
                          • 1841

                          #13
                          And before I begin, I want to state that I hate ramping. I am a tourney player, and its unfortunate that tourneys have turned to ramping for whatever reason you want to believe. I think shooting fast is still a skill that few have.

                          With every story posted here it seems to either be rec play or a select few advanced players using ramping, correct me if im wrong. Now, if that is true why the hell are they ramping to begin with? In each story people seem to be suprised some is ramping, some people seem to ramp while others dont, some ramping is being compared to bouncing, so all of the fact are not there.

                          If one guy is ramping and other are not, why not ask the guy to stop ramping? A few posts point it out like ramping is being sneaky, but if someone is ramping they know it and you know it, its not like having extra bounce or a few shots added. Ramping is not so much cheating as it is a new game format. If you dont like stay away from it, and I am sure everyone here is brave enough to tell someone to take their ramping markers elsewhere if they dont want to play against them. Do not take your local hotheaded tourney guy and say he is like all tourney players who cheat, wipe, bounce, ramp, etc. Every field has at least one idiot, young or old. I have nothing against woodsballers just because some guys flip on full auto switches, up their velocity, and a few other smaller things that some have a tendacy to do. Ramping is not cheating in the tourney world, but if you think it is cheating just nicely ask the guy to turn it off or ask him to leave the game. I am sure everyone else on the field, as well as the owner, will agree with you.
                          my feedback
                          countdown on devilmag day........ill let you now

                          Comment

                          • cdacda13
                            WDP: Fly or Die
                            • Jan 2005
                            • 841

                            #14
                            May I ask what kind of Angel it was?
                            I know that WDPs lastest software only has PSP ramping. That was the first time ramping was put on a WDP marker using the stock board.

                            That being said, TR setting on an angel is sort of like bounce. I was able to get on angel up to 21 BPS on semi auto with TR set at 22. (In my back yard not on a field.)
                            Born to be hated
                            Dying to be loved

                            Comment

                            • wimag
                              BEZERKERS
                              • Aug 2001
                              • 1334

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Lohman446
                              ASTM standards (industry accepted safety standards) expressly forbid enhanced triggers, very much one shot one pull. I beleive (arguably) that should the unfortunate happen there are severe criminal issues. I also beleive (I doubt anyone would argue here) that the civil issues are obvious.
                              ah i see. which ASTM standard reference number do you have. I am curious to read this. The ones i normally dealt with and yes i know there are hundreds upon hundreds if not thousands of ASTM specs were for the plating industry.
                              BEZERKERS
                              ALL MAG SHOOTING TEAM

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