DevilMag Frame Vs Logic Frame ?

[SCpoloRicker]

Its totally reasonable that you are upset with how the Dmag production is going. All I'm saying is that it really isn't fair for others to bash Chris in several threads.

I hope that Coolhand doesn't have the same degree of problems that Chris had. I'm confident that something will come up that throws a bit of a wrench in the process. It always does.

Also, when the Dmag was in pre-pro, everyone was raving and ranting over how astonishing it was going to be, and how it would revitalize Mags, etc. Bit of the same going on here, neh?

In the end, I think its great that we have multiple guys working on custom projects.

[phantomhitman]

first go to toe offical devilamg thread, and skim around reading replies, maybe pming somone with one.

also look at logics thread.


im sure youl notice some differeances.

that is all..

Um, not really that fair of a comparison. Chris is dealing with people and attempting to make the guns (which he has had horrible luck with the machine shop), Logic has yet to start. If you look at Chris' thrad he replied for hte first 20 pages or so and then stopped.....or did you read it back then? That is in not attempting to count the endless pms and emails he gets about them. I feel bad for everyone that purchased a dmag and has not received it, and I love to hear the snide *** comments about how its nothing special by a few people. Nothing special was ever promised about the dmag, and dumbass ao people hyped it up, not Chris. There is nothing legally faster, as cool looking or sounding than a dmag at top speed. If Chris robbed you, stole your parts, lied to you, or done any other wrong then you have every right to be mad. I have bought over 2 thousand dollars worth of stuff from Chris and he has never done me wrong, that is why I defend him.

edit-I also wanted to say logic is great guy too, and his frame looks pretty damn nice. When I see one of those in action I might be tempted......

[CoolHand]

The biggest difference is, that I am not in PreProduction.

I have 25 frames, setting here complete. There are 25 frames, 50 actuators, 50 pistons, 50 triggers, 25 trigger bearings, 50 VA's setting here on the shelf right now. They are done, waiting to be bought, anodized, and assembled. I also have 25 solenoids and 25 boards on order. The solenoids have to come from Japan, and are due in two weeks, which I do not doubt (I have ordered from these folks before). The boards are coming from TAG, and they are the one place we might see a snag from.

Anodizing is another place I have always had trouble with, but I have found two more places that I will be trying out, so I think we should be OK there.

They will take time to finish, but I am going to be really upset if they aren't shipping before Chistmas.

The two situations are not even close to the same. Chris had most of his delays due to trouble with his various machinists, and since all my machine work is done already, that is one set of snags we have navigated safely.

I think what people are failing to grasp is that this whole Electro frame thing isn't just buzz around one frame, that will be put into production. I held my tongue on this deal until I had all of my crap wired straight and all of the parts 100% designed and even ordered.

We are very near the end here for the pre-order guys. If you were to order a frame now, you could still get into the first run. After theirs go to ano, you would be a little bit behind as your parts would go to ano after everyone else's.

[mandatory]

In the end, I think its great that we have multiple guys working on custom projects.

I cant agree more

[Chronobreak]

well is ee coolhand posted his progress so no need for me to get into that

phantom, iwas actually just reffering to available information taht he would need to make a choice.

anything and everything, and more that he needs to make a decision is in the two threads

i wish people just read more instead of posting a vs thread

[SCpoloRicker]

Dang, Coolhand just pwnd me fairly effectively.

Best of luck with your project.

[CKY_Alliance]

You'll get the logic far sooner and it's also a better frame. The Devil is available only as a 90* or a modded hyper frame... most people like 45*. The Logic is a hybrid much like a 45* and is 100% made from scratch by Logic. It's also far better on batteries and the preorder gives you free anno + laser engraving.

easy choice really.

How do you know its a better frame? May not have been you but didnt you sell your spot for a devil frame..no matter have you had one or used one? and i can garuntee you havnt used a logic electro frame...so dont bash either..the people who do have devil frames have said they work and do what they are suppose to...im sure the logic will as well it comes down to do you want 90 or 45 degree.

[JoshK]

Dang, Coolhand just pwnd me fairly effectively.

Best of luck with your project.

He got you before I did. lol

How do you know its a better frame? May not have been you but didnt you sell your spot for a devil frame..no matter have you had one or used one? and i can garuntee you havnt used a logic electro frame...so dont bash either..the people who do have devil frames have said they work and do what they are suppose to...im sure the logic will as well it comes down to do you want 90 or 45 degree.

It is going to be a better frame for many reasons. The only downside for only a few people is the look of the LPR. This thing is going to be amazing internally (please just trust me on this), and you can see from pictures already that it looks amazing (in my opinion atleast).

Logic has gone all out on this, and I give him mad props. Also he did his homework before getting into this. From updates on progress, and other sorts of things I can 99% asure you there won't be a wait anything like Devil's.

And for the same price, how could you pass something like this up?

[RoadDawg]

As of now neither frame is better then the other. Until it reaches the public it is no better then a paper weight. You can make all the educated guesses you want but until it is out in the public (not in a warehouse, shop, etc) it is not worth the time to argue over.

[warbeak2099]

Pros and Cons:

Logic EM Ripper:
Pros = better on batteries, less wait, doesn't need ULT and therefore has faster recharge.
Cons = lose about 5 shots per fill, little bit more complicated than a pancake noid tripper.

Devilmag:
Pros = better on gas.
Cons = needs the ULT and therefore might not recharge as fast.

[phantomhitman]

Pros and Cons:

Logic EM Ripper:
Pros = better on batteries, less wait, doesn't need ULT and therefore has faster recharge.
Cons = lose about 5 shots per fill, little bit more complicated than a pancake noid tripper.

Devilmag:
Pros = better on gas.
Cons = needs the ULT and therefore might not recharge as fast.

completely wrong
I have no idea who started this whole "ult makes it slower crap", but it is simply false. Unless the ult makes it slower up into the 30 bps range there is no droop off/shoot down/slower recharge on my gun. I remember a while back either agd or some other agd tech stated that the ult might cause sloer recharge rates, but I am not seeing it in my devilmag. Did that apply only to mech mags? What was the research on that topic? Also, how do you know that it will be better on batteries? I thought they were using the same board and the only difference being the lpr setup. Extra juice either goes to the solenoid or lpr right? If this has been stated by coolhand or devilsden let me know, because I missed it. I also do not see how the devil is better on air. If you use a level 7 bolt you cn shoot further into a tank, but it doesnt make it efficient (not anyting to notice anyways). Here are the main differences that WE KNOW OF.

devilsden-vert frame, predator electronics, fast, simple noid and eyes
logic-45 frame (nice by the way), predator electronics, im sure its fast, lpr

Anyone feel free to flame me or give me some info I am missing. I will gladly gain some knowledge and shut the hell up. Please do not misinform people about products.

[warbeak2099]

#1 No, the ULT recharging slower thing was tested by AGD using an emag. It's true that if not properly set up, the ULT will not reset as fast as a stock RTP/Emag on/off. The EM Ripper eliminates the need to tune it so that it can keep up. You basically have to have the right number of shims.

#2 Yes, they're using the same board, but the Dmag uses a pancake noid and the em ripper uses a e-pneu noid. The EM ripper uses a little more gas and less juice. An e-pneu with a ram is always going to be better on batteries than a pancake noid.

#3 I said the Devil is better on air because it doesn't use the e-pneu noid. So it doesn't lose those 5 shots per fill. The lvl 7 bolt on either will get you more shots per fill. I call getting more shots per fill better efficiency. I don't know what your definition is, that's just what I call it.

Also, you state that the EM ripper is a 45* frame. It is not. It is a hybrid frame. I'm not sure of the exact angle, but it is in between a 45 and a 90. So you get the low profile of a 45 and the comfort of a 90.

[Asym]

#1 No, the ULT recharging slower thing was tested by AGD using an emag.

Please back this up, show us a link where that is stated by anyone. They have always said not to use ULTs on emags because they were designed with the standard on/off which requires a lot more force thats why the solenoid is huge and requires a 18volt power source. Because of that added weight in the sear/solenoid it needs the 3 or 5 lbs of return force to reset the sear.

It's true that if not properly set up, the ULT will not reset as fast as a stock RTP/Emag on/off. The EM Ripper eliminates the need to tune it so that it can keep up. You basically have to have the right number of shims.

Its a smaller diameter hole, its just common sense and physics that smaller hole=less flow. Tuning a ULT is simple, once its set up the first time your done. Tuning a ULT is about getting your pin the right length, this never changes once you have it set.




Bashing either frame over the other is just retarded. They both do the same exact thing, push the sear so the gun fires.

[Lohman446]

Please back this up, show us a link where that is stated by anyone. They have always said not to use ULTs on emags because they were designed with the standard on/off which requires a lot more force thats why the solenoid is huge and requires a 18volt power source. Because of that added weight in the sear/solenoid it needs the 3 or 5 lbs of return force to reset the sear.



Its a smaller diameter hole, its just common sense and physics that smaller hole=less flow. Tuning a ULT is simple, once its set up the first time your done. Tuning a ULT is about getting your pin the right length, this never changes once you have it set.

I think you outlined the reason why the ULT is beleived to have less recharge rate than the standard on-off. How much less I have no clue

[TheTramp]

Just because someone states that they believe a pneumatic noid is "better" than a pancake noid doesn't mean they are bashing anything. I believe that coke is better than pepsi. I'm not bashing pepsi. No one's saying that the Devil Mag sucks. That would be bashing.

I feel that dealing with the ULT is a pain, you don't. I don't mind setting up an LPR, you might think that's a pain. Neither of us is bashing.

edit: you got in before me.