whats the deal with efficiency?

[wanna-b-ballin']

why does everybody make a deal about how special guns are because of the extremely low operating pressure and how many shots they can get off one tank fill?

would you really want a gun where you only need to fill the tank once in a day? assuming you shoot less than a case a day.
it doesn't take a case of paint to win a game.

i personally would feel ripped off only filling my tank once because of paying for all day air. wouldn't you?

[RoadDawg]

why does everybody make a deal about how special guns are because of the extremely low operating pressure and how many shots they can get off one tank fill?

would you really want a gun where you only need to fill the tank once in a day? assuming you shoot less than a case a day.
it doesn't take a case of paint to win a game.

i personally would feel ripped off only filling my tank once because of paying for all day air. wouldn't you?

Paying for all day air I would... not all areas get that luxury though. For example when I lived and played in Utah. It was something like a dollar per 1k psi. With a mag I was paying for their future compressor, quite often times filling up 3 times per case.

[stondroopy]

i use scubas so yeah the more shots off a tank is really a good thing. I assume your talking about complaints about mags. Personally I like not having to fill up after each game, which I would usually have to do with my mag. Sure it would have some air left but not enough for another game.
Another case was at a scenario I attended recently, I was using my j2 and two friends were using mags really nice ones at that. They were running out of while I had 2k psi left therefore keeping me in the game longer.

Then there are your tourney players who easily shoot a case and having the ability to get more shots per fill is a big plus.
Not knocking mags in any way just some pros to your cons?
whoa i need to stop typing at 4 in the morning

[warbeak2099]

I have all day free air at my field so it doesn't matter to me. But if it's a problem for you, just get a 68/4.5k tank. You should get around 1000 shots from that.

I really think they should come out with a newer bolt. Some kind of HE bolt kit lol. It would have to be lighter and with reduced friction. A Delrin, Nylatron, or CF bolt would be awsome for a mag. Course, it wouldn't be anti-chop so you'd need eyes. But these super e-frames like Logic's EM Ripper and GADevil's Devilmag can facilitate that. They are really expensive though.

[stop whining buy a mag]

Guy at my local field has a Viking and Excal (along with many many other guns) and he gets nearly a case off both of those guns. We have all day air at the field but he doesn't need it. He just pays $5 to fill up at the beginning of the day and plays.

When playing tournaments, getting over 1,000 shots is very helpful. If you play back and are dumping 7 150 round pods and your hopper that's about 1200 shots. With most guns you'd need an 88/45 tank or HE bolt kit (for the guns this applies to).

[hipster]

I get free air but when in the middle of a tourny you don't want to run out especially when the games are timed and back to back
I can easily waste 1000 balls in back to back x ball games so efficiency is much needed

[Arstron]

Well at my local field $10 is your entry free and all day air is included! My 47/3k tank gets filled after every game no matter if it needs it or not. Single fills are only $3 here as well.

I have an idea on helping the efficency of mags, but I have to find an old valve to test it on. I would hate to screw up one of my newer valves.

[BD_Paintball]

if you play at a place that has all day air that comes with your entry then it really does not matter. but if you have to pay per fill then that will add up to a good amount of money.

[DaveSM]

I got 1100 shots from a 68/4500 filled at 3000 psi on my mag at 280 fps... How could someone get so little shots out of the same setup? If you get bad efficiency check your lvl 10 settings. Mine was set to pinch ball on that day and I hadn't any problem with efficiency.

[TheTramp]

If you're getting 1100 shots off a 68/3000 (fill) while using L10 (on a Retro style valve?) then you are way outside the norm. 650-800 would be the average for that fill.

All I know is that as long as I can shoot all the paint I can carry then I'm fine. I don't mind getting a fill each time I come out. This is probably because I don't play x-ball.

[mag88888]

i care alot about efficiency and this is why... i dont have alot of fields around where i live so most the time im playing in the woods or on field we made. i dont have a fill station right at my own outlaw field so i need the best efficiency i can get, to be able to play more than a few games. i know someones gonna say, "so get a fill station and stop whining", i just dont have enough money for that, and even buying a second tank is sexpensive if i was to get a good one. i may get a scuba tank some day. but then i still cant bring it down to my field. but its better going back to my house for a fill then going all the way to my local dive shop. whatever, i just wish mags were more efficient. fro me its important, for others it isnt at all.

[Lohman446]

I like smaller tanks - I currently use a 45/45 tank. At many places I go to they are only filling to 3K or just over. I carry two pods so its not an issue for me, but if I intended to shoot six or seven pods (or four) at a high rate of fire I would have a problem.

[mag88888]

and another thing is. i cant ever get my 68/45 actually filled to 45. i can only get it filled to 3,000 psi. ive never been able to get it filled to 4500 psi, ever. so when i go to play i have about 650 shots, after that im done. i also have a question. my apoc2k cant keep an output of 800 psi or so for very long. it needs a certain amount of air in it to be able to give a high output. is that just with the apoc2k or all tanks? i spoke with AA about this and they sent me a modified spring pack to help with this. but its still not the best.

[SlartyBartFast]

Wow. Repeat of the efficiency discussion. Do a search this has been discussed a thousand times with little new added.

I have an idea on helping the efficency of mags, but I have to find an old valve to test it on. I would hate to screw up one of my newer valves.

You can get better efficiency with a smaller dumpchamber with higher pressures. Been done.

Also, using a 10 or 11 inch barrel with minimum porting helps with efficiency.

I really think they should come out with a newer bolt. ### It would have to be lighter and with reduced friction. ###

What is needed is a Lvl10 bolt with a LVL7 piston.

Do a search for "superbolt" and you'll see why materials other than SS are a bad idea for a Mag bolt.

[11 Bravo]

I use a 68/4500 and get over 1,000 shots with it. By the time I am out of air I am also out of paint, and by that time if I havent been hit I am ready to get out anyways. (scenario player).