"Im ok with capped 15BPS ramping" - opinions?

[Lohman446]

I hear the comment from time to time where someone states something to the effect of "I'm ok with 15BPS capped ramping". Now, I understand that my ramping viewpoint is odd, so let me break it down a bit for this discussion, just to note where I stand.

1) I believe there is a risk of being injured with each paintball in the air. I think this risk is negligible.
2) If there is a risk, then every ball in that air contributes. However I do not think the individual balls are correlated. For instance if the chances of being injured by any individual ball is 1/Trillion the chance of being injured by five balls is not 5/Trillion but 1/trillion 1/trillion 1/trillion etc. Each ball is a seperate occurance and we cannot add them up. The first ball has nothing to do with the second or third, etc.
3) I don't use ramping - theres a liability issue with violating ASTM standards that has nothing to do with more balls in the air but to do with violating safety standards. Its a liability issue, not a safety issue.
4) I have no problem with ramping in game.

Now that that is out of the way. Why is 15BPS "acceptable" and not more? Personally I could care less if you are ramping at 15 or 30 when I play against you, I do not think, at my level of play, it will make much of a difference. Did someone decide 15 was safe but 16 was dangerous? Where did the magic 15 number come from? Why is it 15 and not 30 that you are ok with?

Edit: Let's not turn this into a discussion of cheating. Assume we are discussing ramping allowed by the rules of the field, and accepted by everyone playing.

[Duzzy]

My Opinion:

I think 15 is supposed to be an average. There are some who can hit 19 in short strings, some (Like me...) who can hit 7 (With an electro no less...). So they tried to find a reasonable average.

I also think that it is close to the 13 bps cap that was instituted way back when dinosaurs, automags, and autocockers ruled the Earth. So if they ever do get called on it then they can just say that they barely went over and some markers are capable of 45 cps so they really didn't go that much over.

Mind you I am completely ignorant about this but that is what I think.

[buzzboy]

Personally I find ramping to be pretty funny. One kid I play with used it once and I kept seeing him shoot like ten times and have his gun still be shooting when he ducked back down behind his bunker. What ever floats your boat. Not much more a chance to get injured as you said 1trillion to 1trillion.

[SpitFire1299]

Personally, I am OK with 15 or 30 as long as every shot was pulled by the player and not a computer chip.

I believe it should be a matter of the individual skill. If ROF is an important skill to have within the sport, one should benefit by being better at that skill. And those that arent would need to practice to become better at that skill.

I agree. 1 pull, 1 shot.. i dont care. 1 pull, 3 shots? thats just retarted.

I think ramping is a bunch of bull. I hate how people talk about the fast board that can ramp 45bps, and garbage like that.

Where is paintball going with ramping anyway? Same with all this speed hype. No one wants to have fun anymore, everyone just wants to be the best.

[punkncat]

I suppose as Rogue was saying, that 15BPS is the calculated liability risk that the officiating body/maufaturers are willing to take on. Thats the level at which they feel the desire players have to shoot ever faster balances with the risk of that ROF.

The thing to do would be to write one of the leagues and see if they can explain why they set that limit. I feel like it was a pretty good idea given the conditions before the cap was put in place.

[Lohman446]

This is important because it would be difficult to prove negligence if the ROF was within a majority of players capabilities. No manufacturer wants to be sued for negligence, it could be criminal.

You know my stance on that. There violating ASTM standards without proof that what they are doing is safe. There screwed - of course that is a non expert opinion

[Lohman446]

I suppose as Rogue was saying, that 15BPS is the calculated liability risk that the officiating body/maufaturers are willing to take on. Thats the level at which they feel the desire players have to shoot ever faster balances with the risk of that ROF.

The thing to do would be to write one of the leagues and see if they can explain why they set that limit. I feel like it was a pretty good idea given the conditions before the cap was put in place.

Perhaps, but I see it stated by people often enough on these boards, and there has to be a reason they have picked out that number. Right?

[peewee]

I know that I am old school. One pull one ball. If you are a freak of nature that can pull down +13 BPS more power to you. Personally I cant pull more than 11 for more than a second. But I do feel that we are walking a very dangerous line with ramping. I see very cavalier attitudes about it with a lot of the "if you cant handle it then you shouldn't be playing" comments made. The one thing I find extremely annoying is that the majority people owning these markers want to use them at every venue & type event. When they get told that they cant use them they throw a fit. I saw a first time female player get traumatized (literally had to be helped off the field) in a game where a bunch of guys with ramping markers kept shooting her. They ignored the fact that her hands were up.

[onedude36]

about the 1/trillion thing, one time i heard there was a law of probability. I believe it said that anything over 1/50,000 would never happen. not now, not in a gagillion years. is this total crap? i dont happen to think so, but i would like others input. meh kinda off topic but...

[SCpoloRicker]

I'm okay with it within controlled environments because it makes enforcement (relatively) feasible.

Its a line. It may prove to be too far, but the unlimited/loader-fed limits we were approaching were worse.

[Pha|anx]

I hear the comment from time to time where someone states something to the effect of "I'm ok with 15BPS capped ramping".

To me it's not just the limit, it's the 'how' aswell. Personally I think anything more then 3 shots per pull is unnecessary. I have a video clip that sums up the major reason I detest some of the other forms... Have to edit it first and I'll try and upload it soon.

There are some who can hit 19 in short strings,

Show me one person that can do that without bounce. Semi BPS has got to be the most over hyped aspect of paintball ever.

[Beemer]

1) I believe there is a risk of being injured with each paintball in the air. I think this risk is negligible at least.

If you can say that, then why wont you let me shoot you just ONCE? Since at your level of play the chances are higher that you will take more then one, right?

That negligible risk will depend on the level you play. IMO. That was my point in my thread.
If the players want to play like this why arent they smart enough to reduce or eliminate the risk by protecting themselves better. Is it because they dont know, care or both? You might want to re-evaluate your risk assement for the level you play and adjust your protective gear accordingly. Watch that vid I posted again. I bet he took at least three to the head. That was Two pro teams Legion and Trauma. The level of play will AFFECT how I suit up. Thats bs though right? I should suit up the same all the time. That bunke's head gear was not suited for the level of play, IMHO. Dont ask me ask a neurologist about head shots with a 3.5g ball at 300fps.[13 joules+}

You lost me on the odds. If its one in a hundred with one ball its five in a hundred with five balls.

Might as well be auto. Fifteen max. Oh wait lets call it ramping :spit_take

Not sure but I think they picked 15 cause after that you are really special. Its at the human limit. Butterfingers did a thread on it awhile back. There are some[few] that can really pull that fast or more but it is not a NORM. I would bet large that less then 10% of all Pros could pull that fast on a clean semi. Thats just my opinion I could be wrong. In which case I would Lose Large.

You know my stance on that. There violating ASTM standards without proof that what they are doing is safe.

Like I said talk to a neurologist. I refer to that vid I posted again. Any proof that kind of play is safe with Current Head gear? Any proof it isnt? Remind yourself of that guy over there that died from headshots.

Here is the clip I was talking about

http://home.comcast.net/~beemerone/HeadShots.wmv

from this thread

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=187336

Be SAFE
Play FAIR
Have FUN

___________

[lather]

You know my stance on that. There violating ASTM standards without proof that what they are doing is safe. There screwed - of course that is a non expert opinion

ASTM standards are just a set of guidlines not law. Its my understanding that being in violation of ASTM standards will have little legal bearing unless a specific ASTM standard is adopted as Federal, State or Local law.

[Lohman446]

ASTM standards are just a set of guidlines not law. Its my understanding that being in violation of ASTM standards will have little legal bearing unless a specific ASTM standard is adopted as Federal, State or Local law.

When you are discussing if something you did was negligent or not safety standards that are not law can have an impact on the decision. I feel I am pretty safe when I stick to ASTM standards, in that I can point out that here are scientific standards that I was told, by the ASTM were safe. If I go outside of them, what do I have to point to to prove I was not negligent?

[Lohman446]

about the 1/trillion thing, one time i heard there was a law of probability. I believe it said that anything over 1/50,000 would never happen. not now, not in a gagillion years. is this total crap? i dont happen to think so, but i would like others input. meh kinda off topic but...

It's total crap. And my one in a trillion was a wild guess for example, obviously not a scientifically concluded number. The 1/50K thing. People win the lotto often with much high odds. People are struck be lightening, die in a plane accident, are killed by jellyfish, die of a heart attack in Disneys "Its a Small World" ride etc. from time to time. Without looking I would say those are all less likely to occur than that number.