Observation in PB magazines

[FSU_Paintball]

The guys in those magazines are shooting ultra fragile paint. Much more likely that it's breakage, not chopping, which has NOTHING to do with the eyes, and mags are just as vulnerable to it.

Also, these guys are constantly pushing their barrels onto their bunkers, and that gets goo on them too.

Additionally, some players start shooting before they come out of their bunker so they can have a stream going as soon as they pop out of their bunker... which will also get the barrel nasty like it had a bad break.

Good guns have eyes for a reason. The eyes are probably preventing chops in those pics... they probably didn't chop that paint, it just broke because it's so brittle, which your Mag would do as well.

[11 Bravo]

^^^ I wouldnt say as vulnerable. Lvl 10 bolts hit the ball lighter than other bolts. They are not slaming into the ball.

I think most of the time with brittle paint its the Halo breaking the paint before it even gets into the breach or as it enters the breach.

[FSU_Paintball]

Spool valve markers are extremely easy on paint as well.

And you're probably right about the halo thing.

[nastymag]

Don't discount the fact that Halo's have a tendency of smashing paint if they are set to high.
at a recent tourny, the paint was sooooo brittle, everyone was breaking paint.
Angels, Dm's, Timmy's you name it was breaking paint. Solution ? we switched to the lowest setting on the halo's (17bps on V board) or borke out the revys. Proplem fixed!. man that tourny sucked !

[REDRT]

The guys in those magazines are shooting ultra fragile paint. Much more likely that it's breakage, not chopping, which has NOTHING to do with the eyes, and mags are just as vulnerable to it..

That was the general consences a few posts ago

Also, these guys are constantly pushing their barrels onto their bunkers, and that gets goo on them too..

On them and not way in them

Additionally, some players start shooting before they come out of their bunker so they can have a stream going as soon as they pop out of their bunker... which will also get the barrel nasty like it had a bad break..

S/A

Good guns have eyes for a reason. The eyes are probably preventing chops in those pics... they probably didn't chop that paint, it just broke because it's so brittle, which your Mag would do as well.

So 90% of Mags are not good guns? Tippmanns to? Ohh my! You just came across to me like, "if it doesn't have eyes it is not a good gun". Is that what you mean or did I mistake it?

[Lohman446]

So 90% of Mags are not good guns? Tippmanns to? Ohh my! You just came across to me like, "if it doesn't have eyes it is not a good gun". Is that what you mean or did I mistake it?

One of the prerequisites of my primary marker is that it has eyes (unless something equally as effective and proactive comes along and is proven, this is not LX or an antichop bolt at this time). You have mistaken what he means though. My mag is a wonderful marker for its purpose. Lack of eyes is the reason it is not my primary marker. Is it necessarily fair? No... its still how it is.

[REDRT]

One of the prerequisites of my primary marker is that it has eyes (unless something equally as effective and proactive comes along and is proven, this is not LX or an antichop bolt at this time). You have mistaken what he means though. My mag is a wonderful marker for its purpose. Lack of eyes is the reason it is not my primary marker. Is it necessarily fair? No... its still how it is.

Feeling confrontational today. I figured that might be what he ment. LvL10 works very consistant and well with good paint until I set it to ramp 20 bps or more. At that point Eyes might make a bigger impression on me. I have no real problems not having them since speed limit is 15bps.

[PnueMagger]

I've never shot hellfire, but other types of tournament paint and have never broken it "because it was brittle". All i have is a LvL10 and a .893 barrel. Plus when my freinds I play woodsball we turn our velocity up anywhere from 300-340fps for that extra woodsball range (not at legit PB feilds though). 3 years of lvl10 and one chop beacause I was shooting sideways and the bolt hit the same ball multiple times with out rechambering the ball. :Chuff Chuff Crack: I was surprised but that was more user error, not the lvl10.

I remember ProBounce I remember shooting my freind in the head with a tippy prolite and proball and binging him to his knees! We chronoed the gun right after and it was at 410fps! Even us bunch of 16yr olds back then were like, "Wow, that's not cool. Lets take it down to 350." ProBall could really take some abuse. I wish I coud still get some.

[BigEvil]

ProBall could really take some abuse. I wish I coud still get some.

I had 2 ten-round stock class tubes full. They had to be from 1996.They were white with white fill - always my favorite. They had some discoloration around the seams, but still looked good. I shot one about 3 months ago through my Xmag. They still were as good as the day I got them. Simply amazing, but im sure being sealed up in that little 10rnd tube kept them in such good condition.

I went online and picked up 4 cases of the new proball stuff, and let me tell you, what a disapointment.

[WARPED1]

Barrel breaks and "breach breaks" are 2 differen't animals. Once the ball gets past the eyes, any piece of debris in the barrel can cause a ball to break. Say, from diving to your bunker getting your barrel in the dirt, or say the heat of the day makes your paint swell up, if you leave your gun in sunlight(direct sunlight). Eyes are still better in the long run. Mainly because thier is little to no adjusting to get them to work and there's no "break in" period. Dman that's annoying.

[tyrion2323]

I think you're being unfair and skewing things in order to support your position, so I will respond:

Looking at PB magazines I see pictures of teams with the latest and greatest super markers on the planet. I find it very satisfying to see these markers with gobs of goo flowing out of almost every barrel.

Consider the fact that Pro players are shooting thousands and thousands of paintballs per tournament, sometimes even per game. They probably use more paint in a tournament than you use in half a year. This isn't an insult, but it's the nature of the difference between tournament players and non-tournament players. Combine thousands of rounds per tournament with brittle tournament paint, and you're going to have a break. Furthermore, you might want to consider that breaks often happen in the barrel, and have nothing to do with the gun itself. When you see loads of paint dripping from the end of the barrel, that indicates a barrel break, not a breech chop.

Funny how as a mag owner I get told all the time I need something newer and with eyes.

I don't know who is saying these things to you, so I can't really comment...although, I will say that there is an unfairly false perception on these boards that if you say anything (1) positive about other guns or (2) negative about mags, you're "attacking" mags. This is silly, and not the case.

Comments like, "Lvl10 isn't as good as a good set of eyes". Most of the time my barrel is as clean as when I started the day, atleast on the inside. Maybe break beam eyes on a mag would be just the most ultimate thing for that extra few %? After reading countless magazines and seeing all of these pictures showing barrels with rivers of goo I ask, "why would anyone want that"?

There are several reasons that breakbeam eyes are superior to the level 10. This is not to say that the level 10 is bad, but it's certainly not the best anti-chop system out there.

First of all, Level 10 is a reactive antichop system, while eyes are a proactive chop system. This means that the eyes won't let the ball fire until the paint is loaded, while the level 10 has to already fire and expel its gas in order to not chop.

Secondly, most of the breaks in these magazines are likely barrel breaks. I'm repeating myself, I know. Tournament grade paint is thinner and more delicate than recball paint, and has a higher chance of breaking on the bolt or in the barrel just because. It doesn't have anything to do with the eyes, most of the time.

Finally, eyes are more adjustable than the level 10. They can be turned on, turned off, adjusted for delay, etc... all without opening up the gun. The level 10, well, it doesn't have those features.

This isn't a rail against Level 10, but simply a response to your post, which I perceived to be extremely biased and written with agenda. My response to anyone telling me to get a new gun would be to ignore them. For the record, I would LOVE to own a mag. Until then, I'll stick with my Freestyle

[REDRT]

Consider the fact that Pro players are shooting thousands and thousands of paintballs per tournament, sometimes even per game. They probably use more paint in a tournament than you use in half a year. This isn't an insult, but it's the nature of the difference between tournament players and non-tournament players. Combine thousands of rounds per tournament with brittle tournament paint, and you're going to have a break. Furthermore, you might want to consider that breaks often happen in the barrel, and have nothing to do with the gun itself. When you see loads of paint dripping from the end of the barrel, that indicates a barrel break, not a breech chop.

Maybe they do. As a team we normally shoot in the neiborhood of 12/13000 balls per day playing local 5-man tournaments. Since we shell out the cash out of pocket and the pros don't I'd say it is safe to say they shoot more per year per tournament. I have never seen the amount of paint rolling out of the emags barrel per any of our tournaments, but I never considered their paint maybe more brittle than the stuff we get when I wrote the observation

Funny how as a mag owner I get told all the time I need something newer and with eyes.

I don't know who is saying these things to you, so I can't really comment...although, I will say that there is an unfairly false perception on these boards that if you say anything (1) positive about other guns or (2) negative about mags, you're "attacking" mags. This is silly, and not the case.

Locally I get it all the time. At the store, at the field and of coarse the internet.

There are several reasons that breakbeam eyes are superior to the level 10. This is not to say that the level 10 is bad, but it's certainly not the best anti-chop system out there.

First of all, Level 10 is a reactive antichop system, while eyes are a proactive chop system. This means that the eyes won't let the ball fire until the paint is loaded, while the level 10 has to already fire and expel its gas in order to not chop.

Secondly, most of the breaks in these magazines are likely barrel breaks. I'm repeating myself, I know. Tournament grade paint is thinner and more delicate than recball paint, and has a higher chance of breaking on the bolt or in the barrel just because. It doesn't have anything to do with the eyes, most of the time.

Finally, eyes are more adjustable than the level 10. They can be turned on, turned off, adjusted for delay, etc... all without opening up the gun. The level 10, well, it doesn't have those features.

Well, buy adding in a predator board(mini morlock ie predator code) one can tune the marker pretty well. Tunabilty of things like firing hold off, bolt forward duration ect one can almost eleiminate the need for eyes. Eyes would be the last line of defence against a chop. Maybe if the high grade of tournament paint sold here was as brittle as we suspect the pros use I would need eyes for the extra added insurance. My experiance of observing these other markers with the so called "superior eyes". The eyes get dirty, then they don't work. You then have to clean them or turn them off durning the game. When they are off the markers will chop more so then my RT did with lvl7. Personally I think LVL10 is great. Lvl10 with eyes could very well be the best. Just eyes can't compare. The new DM6 with self wipeing eyes though I guess it might have some bugs yet is the best idea ever reguarding the use of eyes. That might work and work well.

This isn't a rail against Level 10, but simply a response to your post, which I perceived to be extremely biased and written with agenda. My response to anyone telling me to get a new gun would be to ignore them. For the record, I would LOVE to own a mag. Until then, I'll stick with my Freestyle

Yes I am biased. I have way less down time than any one I know or play with on or off the field reguarding markers. Mags just work, period. There is enough aftermarket suppliers that have given us upgrades to be more competitive with them, but under it all the brillance of design shows through. I'll stick with something that never lets me down and isn't a mass produced through away. It is always my agenda to promote mags. This observation might have been never made if I had seen a mag dripping with paint in the magazines, but since there isn't. I can poke fun of the sorry pieces of mass produced crap that graces the pages of thoughs same magazines. After all this is Automags.org were else might I hang out via the web.

[Cow hunter]

my lvl X hasnt ever chopped, when the paint was so fragile it was bieng blended by the hopper (revvy) all my mag did was chuff at it, and the foamiless bolt it really is amazing paint can handle that.

and i believe the devil and x mags use lvl 7 for efficency...... i was once told that eyes are "better" than the lvl 10, thereafter we proceded to shoot horribly kept paint only to find my mag prevailing, and the viking had a terrible mess in its eyes.

[REDRT]

my lvl X hasnt ever chopped, when the paint was so fragile it was bieng blended by the hopper (revvy) all my mag did was chuff at it, and the foamiless bolt it really is amazing paint can handle that.

YES LVL 10 is wonderful. I see still alot of sqeegees on the field in use. The supergun guys included. I'd have to look if I even have one anymore.

and i believe the devil and x mags use lvl 7 for efficency...... i was once told that eyes are "better" than the lvl 10, thereafter we proceded to shoot horribly kept paint only to find my mag prevailing, and the viking had a terrible mess in its eyes.

Xmag came with LVL10 on their X valve, package deal. Devils I think they can be had either way. Some choose the LVL7 for the minute efficiency gains.

[11 Bravo]

I never even carry a squeegie.... never need it. Eyes suck, just something else to worry about. Speaking of eyes I have to replace the eyes in my sons Angel this week.. their not even 5 months old. So thats $60.00 compared to what a $2.00
lvl 10 oring.