If ION's were SUPER cheap how would that change things?

[shorty24]

Before I take a serious stance in this discussion, I'd like to honestly know how much it costs to produce each marker (e.g. Ion/Spyder/Tippy/whatever). If it costs only, say $80 to produce one marker, and all the rest is profit, all the Ion really is doing is cutting some of that profit. Now granted, other pb companies are going to take a hit on this, but wouldn't we agree that it would provide incentive to produce/release better or more appealing products at lower cost? Appealing products = large sales = regain profit. All that results from the Ion then is consumer benefit, in this manner of thinking.

/or maybe I'm just way off, but that's my OPINION

[IronCore]

I think the average person will play more because they can compete with the higher end markers.

So the following would happen (as I see it in my crystal ball):
-Seconds paintballs and zap's spank will have a record sale this year
-Bring your own paint fields will have more attendance
-More people will join tournaments
-15 bps will be mandatory
-High end markers sales will be hurt more than spiders and tippmans
-Body armor and cups will be sold in record number
-AGD will manufacture paintball that is perfectly round and flies straight at $10 a case

[NukeGoose]

Even if National owns 888, that still wouldnt make 888 a mfr.

Yes, I realize that. However, 888 is run by NPS. You can call it whatever you want but National owns a retail outlet (888) designed to compete directly with their distributors. I can open up a store called "Kevin's Paintball Outlet" even though my name isn't Kevin. The name isn't important. It doesn't matter if it's called 888 or The NPS Outlet. It does the same thing.

I've broken metal pieces (barrels and gun bodies) on the paintball field, so I know that it is possible to get into situations where extreme force is being applied to parts of a marker. I also know that plastic is easier to break than metal. Therefore if I have broken metal parts on the field, I have to assume that I would have broken plastic parts in those same situations, and most likely more often. Because i have broken metal parts on the field, I would assume that any plastic parts would be broken more often because situations where a great enough force is applied to break plastic should occur at higher frequency than situations where enough force is applied to break metal pieces.

And yes, I can say with 100% certainty that a certain plastic object is quite breakable without ever breaking it because I have broken plastic before - example, without ever seeing your wooden pencil of brand X, I know I can snap it in half because I have broken a wooden pencil of brand Y before and know that all wood pencils are created essentially equal, so saying that I can't have knowledge of something I have never seen is not a valid argument.

back to your regularly scheduled programming....

The fact that you've seen metal parts break on the paintball field break is indeed irrelevant. Can you show me a case where the plastic Ion body has caused a single problem? Plastic tends to break suddenly whereas metal tends to deform. And in this case, the Ion body is a plastic shell around a metal cylinder, which will prevent the Ion body from snapping like an exposed piece of plastic (say, a barrel) would. The Ion body is not a hollow tube of plastic while in use, it's a metal-filled tube of plastic. If you can break a plastic Ion body while it's on the Ion during any situation that might be encountered during play - where a metal body wouldn't have bent - I'll be very surprised.

[MoeMag]

[Lohman446]

Anyone ever consider the possibility that it is cheaper to produce an Ion than say a Spyder?

[cpt]

Well, I was a magger for 5 years and then traded a mag for an Ion. Just got my second one. Got both used fully upped and selling off some parts they had in the deal have about $130 in each one. All they need is a trigger, feedneck and ASA. And you don't really need that. A pain in the a** to take apart but I can do it in 2 minutes. Very reliable, light and efficent. I've played with everyting and these are as good as any high end marker there is. I know I will get flamsd for that but who can pull 17 bps anyhow? Downside? Everyone has them. When I have my mag out people oh and ah and what's that. But I am a function over form guy and don't have to have fancy milling and a matching outfit to play. So, what changes? Bk4 Pds for $175 and couldn't sell it, Angel Ir3 for $250? New Nerve's for $475? Pricing has gone down so much the past 6 months I drool when looking thru the for sale section. Butttttttt. I still pull the Rt out and like to kick a** once in a while.

[sbpyro]

What happens when you slide into a bunker with an aluminium marker and it happens to slide on the ground and finds a rock? A nasty scratch that is pretty muh there forever unless you want to replace the whole thing.

I could have sworn that there was a post where someone diving into a bunker and the ion took a digger and the aluminum frame had a nasty bend in it. For me the normal wear and tear on a gun doesn't bother me. BUt on the occassion that I take a header I'd like to believe that I can protect myself prior to protecting my gun. (Of course I have also tossed my entier setup trying to lighten to get the flag back to my base but that is besides the point.)

[Ydna]

The real cost determing factor in the price of a marker isn't the raw materials that go into it. It's the cost to pay the people to work the machines, cost to pay the engineering staff, cost to pay the power bill on the building, etc etc.

It could be $40 to produce an marker out of the raw materials alone, but if the manufacturing facilities, fixtures, molds, and other items cost 500 thousand dollars in the first place, you won't find yourself charging just $45 for your new marker.

In Smart Parts case they have a few other markers that can help take care of some of those issues, so it can't even be easily quantified even if you have all the information.

[Soopa Villain17]

i think it would be good. ive had 2 ions and they were decent, especialy for the price. smart parts still sucks as a company though

[Pump Scout]

I could have sworn that there was a post where someone diving into a bunker and the ion took a digger and the aluminum frame had a nasty bend in it.

Might that be this?


One thing is for absolute certain with the Ion... it's the Stingray of today. Remember when some of the higher-end Spyders (at the time, like the Shutter) were over $300? Stingray came out at $199, then bumped down to $100. Was it as well built as the guns it wound up competing against? Hell no. Did it cause a shift in the market? Absolutely. Does anyone really remember that 8-9 years later, other than old farts with four boxes of old paintball magazines in their basement? Not really. I'd bet there's a bunch of kids playing today that don't even know what a Stingray is!

[Arstron]

For those that are concerned walmart will start carring the ion...

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=4328440

[FSU_Paintball]

I think there might be something to the injury statement Lohman made.

Aside from that, it would allow players to shoot a gun on about the same level as advanced players very cheaply, which means everyone would have one.

But I really don't think it would change a whole lot. The Ion is already $200, meaning anyone who wants an electro and will pick up Paintball as even a somewhat regular hobby will probably have one very shortly.

Here's the rub: fast guns can be had for 70% cheaper than they could two years ago, but paint has not changed significantly in price. There may be a 10% difference in paint prices in the last couple of years. No matter how cheap the gun is, you're still going to be dropping a bundle on paint. And players still won't be able to afford to shoot more paint than if they'd spent $200 on a Spyder instead of an Ion.

Anyways, if you want to really be ripping on an Ion, you need to drop about $300 more for an HPA tank and a fast hopper. So what would really change? Not much. People won't be able to shoot 15BPS streams for $200. I think the balance of players who shoot lots vs those who don't would stay relatively similar to where it is today, and many of the newer ones who DO shoot faster won't be on the field as long because they can't afford to pay for that ROF all day.

Of course, this is all just conjecture.

[cledford]

[RapidTransit]

Well to answer the original question since they are cheap right now, I'm already trying to make a electro pneumatic frame. When I ore apart the Ion I was shocked at how awful the build quality is of these things.

[Tao]

For those that are concerned walmart will start carring the ion...

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...uct_id=4328440

Lol I knew it would happen. There goes the neighbourhood literally. I bet this will end up being the vandals gun of choice.