If ION's were SUPER cheap how would that change things?

[Arstron]

So TK, what was the original reason for this thread anyway? Are emag prices going to drop to compete with IONs?

/me quits dreaming

[SpitFire1299]

So TK, what was the original reason for this thread anyway? Are emag prices going to drop to compete with IONs?

/me quits dreaming

I wonder the same thing.. Is AGD making a new "more affordable" gun!???

/also quits dreaming because i know im not going to get a hint of an answer

[RRfireblade]

1) In my area IONS are rentals at all the local feilds...can't get much cheaper than that. :) Field owners love them cause they dump mass amounts of paint and are cheap to buy and cheaper/easy to fix and the kids love 'em cause.....well , they dump mass amounts of paint and the don;t have to fix them.

2) NPS's online retail outlet most certainly competes with the Dealers and other online retailers that NPS sells NPS mfg and distributed products to , not sure how that can be made any clearer.

They run sales, close outs and sell products regularly priced at under MSRP. Half the product lines over the years that NPS has sold and distributed ARE NPS made or aquired products sold under a variety of brand designations.

[CoolHand]

1) In my area IONS are rentals at all the local feilds...can't get much cheaper than that. :) Field owners love them cause they dump mass amounts of paint and are cheap to buy and cheaper/easy to fix and the kids love 'em cause.....well , they dump mass amounts of paint and the don;t have to fix them.

2) NPS's online retail outlet most certainly competes with the Dealers and other online retailers that NPS sells NPS mfg and distributed products to , not sure how that can be made any clearer.

They run sales, close outs and sell products regularly priced at under MSRP. Half the product lines over the years that NPS has sold and distributed ARE NPS made or aquired products sold under a variety of brand designations.

Indeed. NPS = ICD = Bob Long = Empire = 32 Deg = Psychoballistics = Icon = Rebel = What's left of KAPP = 888paintball = 800paintball = several other online stores. NPS is like the Wal-Mart of paintball, but in a mostly good way.

I am an NPS dealer, and I have many times bought something from 888 because I found it to be cheaper there than my "dealer" price was.

That said, they have gotten better. All the Bob Long, ICD, and Smart Parts markers are now sold at MAP or above to the general public.

Every once in a while, a promotion will pop up that is under my regular dealer price, but when I check into it, they are running a concurrent discount for the dealers to keep or margin the same while the stuff is on sale.

Margins are damned close on basically anything from NPS though. That's one thing you really have to give to SP, is that they take care of their dealers. I've had nothing but good dealings with them since I set up an account two or three years ago. They take good care of us, and they rabidly protect MAP online, something that other places have long lacked but are catching up on.

Anyway, I like the ION. Taken for what it is, it's a fine marker for a good price. It is not the end of PB as we know it, nor is it the beginning of some sort of "noob" influx. it's just a good performer for a good price.

I believe that the uber-low resale market is due mostly to market saturation rather than the ION itself, since the decline began long before the ION came out. You can't sell a gozillion new uber-markers a year to a population that is the same size or shrinking without the worth of the older markers tanking. That's just the way it is.

[sniperxix]

current issue

They require AS CO2, which places like Dicks and Walmart do not sell.

I meant mass market like Wal-mart guns; anyone can pick up a brass eagle from walmart, but you still have to go to a proshop or the like for an Ion.

ACtually now Walmart IS carrying the ION! I spoke to my local PB shop and they are furious. Walmart is selling the ION for only $10 above the wholesale cost Smartparts is charging them.
Soon everyone will have one for the low price of $118.88, and that's before Walmart issues the Price cut gimick!

[CoolHand]

ACtually now Walmart IS carrying the ION! I spoke to my local PB shop and they are furious. Walmart is selling the ION for only $10 above the wholesale cost Smartparts is charging them.
Soon everyone will have one for the low price of $118.88, and that's before Walmart issues the Price cut gimick!

Wal-Mart.com has them at $284.95.

BTW, $118.88 is WAY below wholesale, even at the 50+ piece price.

I think the guy is lying to you. . . . . . . . . . .

[geekwarrior]

ACtually now Walmart IS carrying the ION! I spoke to my local PB shop and they are furious. Walmart is selling the ION for only $10 above the wholesale cost Smartparts is charging them.
Soon everyone will have one for the low price of $118.88, and that's before Walmart issues the Price cut gimick!

which Walmart is that...for that price I would buy one.

[REDRT]

AO,

So if the ION were way cheaper than it is even now how would that affect the paintball world?

AGD

Other than going insane with all the hysteria on the web boards nothing would really change.

[RavishingEddie]

One thing that I understand about marketing is that not always dropping price will bring you more money. Sure you sell more, but your return is smaller and people will start wondering why it is so cheap. They will start to speculate on the quality of the item. This is the case with any item that exists. For instance if DYE comes out with a brand new barrel system called "Maximum Rappage" and charged the same that they do for an Ultra Light. People would buy it for two reasons. It is from DYE and it is expensive so it must be good. If Dye would however charge a meesly $89.00 for a the whole kit they would sell less of them just because people are not used to such cheap prices and would blow them off as cheap.

As far as SP is concered, I believe they have used rusted anchors to stay in paintball. They are relying on pure fad for profits on their ION. It won't be long till Tippmann and Spyder and all others jump on the band wagon and offer an equal if not better option for the same price. Therefor, if kids start telling kids ION's are for dorks then the ION fad will dissapear faster than a $100.00 in a strip club. Next is how SP is using scare tactics and bringing the law into paintball, instead of focusing on beating the competition with clearly superior products. Look at Tippmann for example, they're guns are regular blowbacks, but the cyclone system, Flatline barrels, and the new ACT are going to make them prosper. I am not a fan of Tippmann, but I got respect for them. Patents don't last forever and either do fads. When the IONS start to drop in price I assure you it's because their sales have dropped and they will attempt to keep it in the market, even if it means getting a lower margin.

[NukeGoose]

Therefor, if kids start telling kids ION's are for dorks then the ION fad will dissapear faster than a $100.00 in a strip club.

People bash on Ions more than anything as being a 'noob' gun. Have you been around PBNation much? A good percentage of the posts are bashing Ions / Ion users. Also, have you shot an Ion? I'm not going to say that they're as smooth or refined as most of the thousand-dollar electros, but you really do get a lot for your money - it'll shoot faster than you can legally pull, breakbeam eyes, low kick, and it comes stock with ramping modes. Stock, it can easily compete with any gun on the market, and with a few upgrades, you can make it shoot just as smoothly. I play with a few guys on the PunishersPB.com team sometimes, and I can assure you that they are not outgunned using their Ions.

Look at Tippmann for example, they're guns are regular blowbacks, but the cyclone system, Flatline barrels, and the new ACT are going to make them prosper.

If the Cyclone feed and Flatline barrels haven't caught on yet, I don't think that they will. They work well and do what they are intended to do, and they certainly have their niche in the market, but I doubt that we're going to see a big popularity boom for Flatlines or A-5s like there was for the Ion. Tippmann products are very reliable and backed by one of the best customer support teams around - this is why they are as popular as they are. However, it will not cause a major market shift like the Ion did. Tippmanns are popular and will continue to be reliable sellers but won't suddenly 'take off' like the Ion.

There are a few reasons for Smart Parts to drop the price on Ions. It gives Smart Parts brand name exposure to people entering the sport. It puts pressure on lower-price gun manufacturers such as Tippmann and Kingman (as well as WGP's Trilogy line). It increases Smart Parts' market share. Maybe Smart Parts did their market research and found that they were likely to see an increase in profits from lowering the price. Ions were (and still are) selling like hotcakes.

[zt10]

i have owned an ion and i must say that i was mildly impressed. i was part of the stingray generation and have been through pirahnas, classic mags, x-valved mags, ebladed cockers, with tippmans and ions somewhere in between all of those and now i own a timmy. i must say that even though i hate sp, the ion is the best gun for that price range, i personally believe it is way more reliable than the stingray or the piranha ever was. tippman will keep selling to teh woodsball crowd and those that love the reliability of the tippman. I think kingman has been hurt the most. supposedly kingman is coming out with a whole new line called the VS or something. i am interested to see if they can compete with the ion.

[PnueMagger]

People that purchase from AGD are usually looking for quality not plastic.

I've seen several posts about the "plastic issue" : Let's clear this up right now.

Why is everyone so hastey about buying a gun cause it uses a polymer shell and trigger. It really is very durable, not integral to the marker function, and takes scrtaches alot better than an annoed aluminum marker. And is easy to replace if necessary.

He who lives in a glass house should not throw stones. Let's not forget that a standard RT PRO, Minimag, and Pro Classic come with polymer frames from the AGD store AND aren't any cheaper than an ION -- they even cost much more than a new ION and don't have the features. That trigger frame is a much more integral part than the body shell of an ION too. If you want an I-frame you gotta drop an extra $80-115 to dump the 1X polymer frame.

So lets see...
Buy an ION for $200, aftermarket aluminum body for $65, and roller trigger for $20 = $285
or
RT Pro for $355, Blade I-iframe $75 = $430
or
Minimag/Pro Classic for $230, Blade I-frame $115 = $345

I'm not ripping on mags here, they are far better in quality -- but with all that saved money you could get a hopper or tank or enough Orings and boards to even outlast the mags. You also get firing modes and eyes and better efficiency.

[PnueMagger]

Sorry Tom...forgot about answering the actual question

It wouldn't chnge the actual sport, just the guns used. If it were in the $125 range and other markers didn't drastically lower in price:

Everyone would either have Ions as their backups, or Ions as their main marker.
All other lower-than-high-end markers would slowly fade out as new players replace older players (who prefer niche markers)
The average highest end markers would drop to ~$500.
The ion's aftermarket upgrades would increase making it become faster, more reliable, and overall better.
Paint sales would see a slight increase due to faster average ROFs and a moderate increase due to PB's increased popularity/affordability
The Gardner's would run for political office (Just joking on this one)

Here's what SP should do...The ION II
Raise the cost of the gun back up to $300. If SP dumped every bit of that $100 into quality, there would be no reason not buy an ION. Invest in 6000/7000 series aluminum for the barrels, gripframes, tiggers, and regs. Tighten up the machining tolerances. Raise the BPS cap to 25ish. And hardcoat annodize rather than powdercoat. This really wouldn't cost that much for SP to do either. They don't even have to dump the Plastic shell.

[Toll]

Ions are rediculously popular locally so I tend to do quite a bit involving them. Things that I'd like to see done to them to make them a little better :

1) Most of the things pnuemagger listed
2) cocker threaded. Personal preference, and I know they'd never do it.
3) Bolt out back as standard
4) Get rid of the crap powder coat. It's nice and all, but a nice hard coat would be superb.
5) Make a standard trigger that emulates the roller style triggers
6) Cheap but effective locking feedneck as stock.
7) Mem.pad instead of that damn irritating button.
8) LCD instead of blinks. Much more user friendly for the new guys who want to turn their ramping off (heh)

I've shot alot of ions..I don't particularly like them, but for the price who can argue. Most of this stuff has been thought of already and are now after market accessories. If they keep dropping their prices to the 150 mark, there is absolutely no reason to buy a spyder/clone.


Slowly my feild has been contemplating replacing our "reactor" packages (98's with Rts) with Ions and revs. a 98 with RT/rev is approx 150 dollars or so used on PBN or similar site. A used ion with a rev is about the same price.

Personally I get a bit sick of hearing the guys at the feild make fun of the kids with ions. They are purely upset because their 1000 dollar marker isn't better than it. My personal favourite is the 06 crowd. Nice, new ego's....They don't shoot any faster than the ions (our feild is capped semi 15) so really that 800 dollars extra goes into their ego...in both senses. By and large ion's are fine for what they are. a few modifications and they'd be amazing for the price for 300 retail NIB.