Do I need a new marker?

[Aslan]

open issue

I thought this issue was dead...went to my first Big Game...played pretty well...had a lot of fun.

Well, then came today...

I went to my usual field and once again felt over-matched by other markers. I don't know what kind they were...it really doesn't metter. I think I saw a shocker and I know there were quite a few A-5s...many with some serious modifications. But like I said, it really doesn't matter. The outcome was the same.

The Problems:
1) Virtually no room for error.
2) No way to make a run on an enemy that has a bead on you.

1) It used to be that if you made a tactical error or maybe let your butt stick out a little behind a tree...you may have got hit...maybe not. Maybe it wouldn't break. But those days appear to be coming to a close. You leave a part of your body exposed, it gets hit 8 times before you know to move it. You end out in the open...you can't dodge a few shots and have a beneficial bounce as you run for cover. You are now hit 12-13 times and dropped to the ground. Your head pops up in a window...12 balls head towards that window...1-3 are bound to get through.

2) It used to be that you could move around a little and possibly dodge a few balls. Now, the only way to move up on an enemy (that knows where you are) is to get supressive fire that exceeds their fire.

Lets see exacty what I saw today that bugged me...

1) Player moves up at will. I had a guy pinned down and was holding a bridge. The guy popped up and fired relentlessly at my bunker as he moved up to the next bunker. Then...he'd do the same thing to move to the next bunker. Pretty soon, he's bunkered me. Oh sure, in between his barrages I fire a few shots his way...try to get lucky and have one hit him as he pops out...but once he pops out...he just suppresses me..no way could I so much as get a gun barrel out.

2) On two occasions...I had a guy in open field less than 45 feet from me...and they ran right through my stream like it was nothing. You would think 7bps would be enough to hit a guy...but both times they ran right through. Meanwhile, I got caught in open field and before I could even tell which direction the shots were coming from...I had been hit about 6 times and had at least 9 more zinging around me.

3) I was doing battle with a guy in a bunker opposite me. Each of us had a window to shoot out of. I kept firing shots in his window...had to come close to hitting him...but, finally he got me. Not because he got a few shots in my window and his happened to hit me...but because he got about 40 in my window in a 2 second interval and one was BOUND to hit me.

I don't know...maybe it's just me ranting after another bad day of paintball...8 kills 5 deaths in 10 games. And it wasn't all getting outshot. Started out the day with my NEW...IMPROVED...SUPED UP Minimag....which WOULDN'T WORK!!! (another post). Poor reffing. Players cheating. Wife mad at me because I played paintball all day. The whole gammit of "junk" that makes you just want to quit altogether. Until next time anyway.

[peewee]

one word... "Promaster". evidently you playing with a rougher/ skilled crowd that we originally thought. Best electro bang for the buck is the promaster. seeing more & more in my area, very impressed.

[dahoeb]

oh man. i feel for you, aslan, i had one of those days a few months ago. nothing went right it seemed like.

some of those issues you had (eg. exposed parts getting hit, less room for error) are just part of the game now and can be fixed simply by not getting too complacent.

if you really think you need a faster marker with more firepower, then thats a decision only you can make.

like peewee said, if the crowd you play with is tougher, then maybe you DO need to step up the firepower a notch.

hope everything works out!

[rb211]

Sounds like you had another bad day Aslan. As far as players cheating, or bad reffing, I have cut my day short due to being pissed off many times because of these two very things.

As far as your #1, if you don't use that tactic, you should start. That is how I have won many of my games. You will want to pay close attention to how much paint you have in the hopper, but that is an excellent way to move when using bunkers for cover. Pin them down by shooting the bunker and move forward. More than likely, they arent going to stick their head out while you are shooting. Two weeks ago when I last played, BREAD_DA_PAINTER and I eliminated two "tournament" players (playing a 2 on 2 game) by doing excatly that. It works.

Your #2, are you leading them or following them with your shots? I know it's hard to think about that during the adrenaline rush, but I lead them and make them run in to my paint. If they are running fast enough, they wont be able to avoid it.

Your #3, go back to #1. Use his bunker against him. Keep firing at the window, or just hose the whole thing down, so he thinks you are firing from the same place and move up and bunker him.

Now, these things might work about 75% of the time, I know if someone is using these things against me, and if I know he is using them against me to move up or bunker me, well, then it's time to decide on how I want to get eliminated. If all else fails I use the kamakaze charge. Sometimes I eliminate them because I surprise the heck out of them by doing this (I ran at a guy firing at me, he ended up turning around and running away from me. I chased him around a building twice and wiped him out. Even the refs were laughing their butts off at that one. I wish I had a video camera for that one!), or sometimes I get lit up for doing this. Either way, I laugh it off and move on to the next game.

Good luck!!!

[Marroonblooded]

I say that if you want one, have the money, wife permits, than go out and do it... but having said that... I am not a fan of ectro play... takes the fun out of it and makes the game overly costly thought for myself to bare. I don't think that is what the sport is about.

Now... having said that, I became tremondously excited about the pneumag trigger job. I thought - finally a way for me to play with the electros, keep up with bps, and still not be electro... but whats the difference? a frakin battery! So I'm no better deep down inside... although still against electros - I feel as though eventually it will not be bps, because there will just be a constant beam of paint and who ever tries to use any tactics besides shot non stop will inevitably loose. What kind of game will that be... the bunker making business would surely be doomed and I would no longer want to play and the sport yrs down the road (2056... formulated a very complex formula for telling the future, patent pending) will revert back to pump (if it survives at all)

So basically the world is headed for a deep dark place and you need to have fun while you can.

[Marroonblooded]

I say that if you want one, have the money, wife permits, than go out and do it... but having said that... I am not a fan of ectro play... takes the fun out of it and makes the game overly costly thought for myself to bare. I don't think that is what the sport is about.

Now... having said that, I became tremondously excited about the pneumag trigger job. I thought - finally a way for me to play with the electros, keep up with bps, and still not be electro... but whats the difference? a frakin battery! So I'm no better deep down inside... although still against electros - I feel as though eventually it will not be bps, because there will just be a constant beam of paint and who ever tries to use any tactics besides shot non stop will inevitably loose. What kind of game will that be... the bunker making business would surely be doomed and I would no longer want to play and the sport yrs down the road (2056... formulated a very complex formula for telling the future, patent pending) will revert back to pump (if it survives at all)

So basically the world is headed for a deep dark place and you need to have fun while you can.

DISCLAIMER: This message was in now way intended to offend, upset, or cause a temper tantrum from any and all of the pb community including the ectro overlords... please forgive me as I am but a peasant

[Aslan]

fair

That's a good point...and let me be fair...this crowd was for the most part more experienced. There were some SPPL players and a couple groups of speedball players out there. It wasn't the usual newbfest. So yes, I'll give the opposition credit. But I'd give them even more credit if they were as dominant using a mech gun rather than combining their "skeelz" with advanced weaponry.

One other thing that happened...I was all happy in the first part of the morning because I actually took up a great position and was holding down an entire side of a field with just position. Well, here comes my first kill...little kid runs right up to a bunker in front of me...doesn't see me...I lay 3 into him. I was almost positive I hit him, but I couldn't tell if they broke...it looked like all 3 bounced. When he stood up, he didn't say "out" or put his gun in the air...so I sent about 4-5 into him. He then screamed and the ref called him out. Except...the kid just fell to the ground crying . I felt HORRIBLE! Here's my first kill of the day...and I probably caused the kid to never play paintball again. I apologized to him as he left, but he just clutched his side and sobbed. It's too bad...I'd have never done that on purpose. But with the way paintball is played nowadays, you got guys running at you and they get hit about 20 times and keep firing...you just never know.

[Marroonblooded]

That's a good point...and let me be fair...this crowd was for the most part more experienced. There were some SPPL players and a couple groups of speedball players out there. It wasn't the usual newbfest. So yes, I'll give the opposition credit. But I'd give them even more credit if they were as dominant using a mech gun rather than combining their "skeelz" with advanced weaponry.

One other thing that happened...I was all happy in the first part of the morning because I actually took up a great position and was holding down an entire side of a field with just position. Well, here comes my first kill...little kid runs right up to a bunker in front of me...doesn't see me...I lay 3 into him. I was almost positive I hit him, but I couldn't tell if they broke...it looked like all 3 bounced. When he stood up, he didn't say "out" or put his gun in the air...so I sent about 4-5 into him. He then screamed and the ref called him out. Except...the kid just fell to the ground crying . I felt HORRIBLE! Here's my first kill of the day...and I probably caused the kid to never play paintball again. I apologized to him as he left, but he just clutched his side and sobbed. It's too bad...I'd have never done that on purpose. But with the way paintball is played nowadays, you got guys running at you and they get hit about 20 times and keep firing...you just never know.

That is the meanest thing ever... but what a dumb kid, I don't stop shooting till i Hear out or see hand/ hands/ gun up in the over their heads (unless it is just really obvious ie google or I see them see the paint) but then again I usually play with out refs or atleast without good ones, peeps wipe paint all the time and the suck...

funny story though and I'm sure he is fine you probably just scared him. It was bound to happen sooner or later

[SlartyBartFast]

#1 - Your fault. You should practice the same tactic. You don't need a super gun to keep someone's head down.

#2 - Your fault again probably. Learn to lead your target as was already pointed out.

#3 - Whether it's 10 bps or 20 bps. Those were 2 seconds you shouldn't have had your head in the window.

When someone is blasting your position, you should be taking advantage of the fact they are concentrating on that act. If you don't someone else will and move on you. If you can't take action or strategically retreat, it's your fault for choosing poor cover.

If someone had the chance to shoot on your position for that length of time, either you should have found another angle, or you should be working with a teammate who could ahve got another angle.

When someone is pounding you position/bunker and advancing, asess the angle they have on you. Don't hug the bunker, get back from it as far as you can so that you can take advantage of break in fire to snap out quicker. If you can, snap out from the opposite side.

[Lohman446]

Individual tactics are going to fail as often as not. Its best to find someone who enjoys playing the same tactic based game you do and "wingman" with them. I did this with a guy at a big game once and we were able to decimate larger forces as often as not with careful tactics and by avoiding protracted fire fights with individuals.

[jman511115]

Now, the point of this is I've always been of the opinion that firepower was a far second to skill. That a skilled player could dominate a game with a pump over newer players.

QFT. Just look at the way you are playing, and figure out what you are doing wrong. I know entire teams who play pump, and they decimate everyone they play against. My own team used all mech cockers for the better part of two years, while I played pump, and we won tourneys that way. A new marker is always nice, but when you get in the habit of shooting 15 bps, it takes away from your ability to assess the situation and figure out "What can I do to get the edge on this guy?"

My suggestion: If you do want a new marker, get a pump cocker. Play with that for two months, and then go back to your semi. You will be amazed at the dumb moves your opponents seem to be making. It worked for me...

[Aslan]

QFT. Just look at the way you are playing, and figure out what you are doing wrong. I know entire teams who play pump, and they decimate everyone they play against. My own team used all mech cockers for the better part of two years, while I played pump, and we won tourneys that way. A new marker is always nice, but when you get in the habit of shooting 15 bps, it takes away from your ability to assess the situation and figure out "What can I do to get the edge on this guy?"

My suggestion: If you do want a new marker, get a pump cocker. Play with that for two months, and then go back to your semi. You will be amazed at the dumb moves your opponents seem to be making. It worked for me...

I tried that. I decided I was sick of going through a case of paint and played pump one day. Not only did I get smoked...but I spent so much time "staying hidden" that it wasn't any fun. I remember crawling around an entire field to get a good position on the opposition. When I finally did...they moved up and got shot by my team in front of them. When I tried to flank, I had some luck...used solid tactics...but as soon as I'd fire...if it didn't break or goggle the guy...whack whack whack.... I'd get lit up! There was so much pressure on hitting the guy out with that one shot, that first shot, that it gave me a fricken headache.

And how many people really call themselves out on one shot? I mean seriously? I went to a big game and shot a guy at least 15-17 times at point blank from his right side...he just kept running and firing until he got to the bunker he was running to. Once he got there and I kept shooting him...FINALLY...he called himself out. The same thing happened to me this past weekend. A guy on the other team ran at my friends who were hiding in brush. He got two of them out while the third continued to drill him as he was running. Once he got past my position (I was off to the side)...I put about 9-10 into his side at about 9 feet away. He was "upset"... What?? If you're going to get ticked because people overshoot you...try calling yourself out when you first get hit for crying outloud...this game is getting rediculous.

Sorry for the rant.

[Aslan]

#1 - Your fault. You should practice the same tactic. You don't need a super gun to keep someone's head down.

#2 - Your fault again probably. Learn to lead your target as was already pointed out.

#3 - Whether it's 10 bps or 20 bps. Those were 2 seconds you shouldn't have had your head in the window.

When someone is blasting your position, you should be taking advantage of the fact they are concentrating on that act. If you don't someone else will and move on you. If you can't take action or strategically retreat, it's your fault for choosing poor cover.

If someone had the chance to shoot on your position for that length of time, either you should have found another angle, or you should be working with a teammate who could ahve got another angle.

When someone is pounding you position/bunker and advancing, asess the angle they have on you. Don't hug the bunker, get back from it as far as you can so that you can take advantage of break in fire to snap out quicker. If you can, snap out from the opposite side.

So you're saying the problem with paintball is I completely blow?

That's fair. A little "brutally honest"...but maybe it's true. Like this past weekend...the second half of the day I played with an ex-marine. He said the problem with my tactics was I was getting too far ahead of my team. He said that as long as a group of 4 players can stay together, they can do alot of damage. But if one goes off on his own, he's dead. And he was right. I got bored leapfrogging around behind the action and ran over to a position where there was some more action. But then I got hesitant. Little kids all around me...none of them cooperating. None of them seemed to know where we were getting shot from. All of the sudden one gets hit...then I get flanked. When I got back to the gathering area, I waited and off came my buddies. They all survived to the end. So I guess I was just too agressive.

In the last game of the day, the Marine said the best way to fire out windows of a bunker is to have teams of two...shooting a "V"...one shooting one direction, one shooting the other direction. I have to admit, I was impressed. Using this simple tactic, we were able to use two bunkers and hold the whole team back. I got 3 kills like nothing and we would have won the game but the other team either cheated or came darn close to cheating as they were dangerously close to being out of bounds as they worked their way around us. And, per usual, I was a little ticked off that I thought for sure I hit the guy that shot me...and as I walked by him, he got hit in the goggles and the ref called him out...meanwhile I saw at least 3 other spots of fresh paint where he'd been shot. One other negative to FPO...everybody is shooting the same color so it's a little hard to tell if a guy had been hit by two people or just one...oh well.

Oh...and one more thing...I hate smoke grenades. Here we are holding down our bunker...and some dork little kid (on our team) throws a smoke grenade right in front of us! Now we can't see...so I have to shoot blindly into the cloud...and it stunk like someone farted a campfire. Stop with the smoke grenades or at least learn to use them effectively! I guess it could have been worse, he could have lobbed a real grenade right in front of us.

[jman511115]

I tried that. I decided I was sick of going through a case of paint and played pump one day. Not only did I get smoked...but I spent so much time "staying hidden" that it wasn't any fun. I remember crawling around an entire field to get a good position on the opposition. When I finally did...they moved up and got shot by my team in front of them. When I tried to flank, I had some luck...used solid tactics...but as soon as I'd fire...if it didn't break or goggle the guy...whack whack whack.... I'd get lit up! There was so much pressure on hitting the guy out with that one shot, that first shot, that it gave me a fricken headache.

And how many people really call themselves out on one shot? I mean seriously? I went to a big game and shot a guy at least 15-17 times at point blank from his right side...he just kept running and firing until he got to the bunker he was running to. Once he got there and I kept shooting him...FINALLY...he called himself out. The same thing happened to me this past weekend. A guy on the other team ran at my friends who were hiding in brush. He got two of them out while the third continued to drill him as he was running. Once he got past my position (I was off to the side)...I put about 9-10 into his side at about 9 feet away. He was "upset"... What?? If you're going to get ticked because people overshoot you...try calling yourself out when you first get hit for crying outloud...this game is getting rediculous.

Sorry for the rant.

Lol. You're not gonna be good at it the first time, it takes practice, just like anything else. It's when you get to the point where you can hit them with that first shot. When I began playing pump, the first thing I noticed was that I had to think more. As I got deeper into it, I noticed my snapshooting getting to the point where I could snapshoot any part of a player hanging out of his bunker, usually the first time. Trust me, it builds on your skills in a big way. I go back to playing semi, and everything seems so easy.

[WenULiVeUdiE]

Oh...and one more thing...I hate smoke grenades. Here we are holding down our bunker...and some dork little kid (on our team) throws a smoke grenade right in front of us! Now we can't see...so I have to shoot blindly into the cloud...and it stunk like someone farted a campfire. Stop with the smoke grenades or at least learn to use them effectively! I guess it could have been worse, he could have lobbed a real grenade right in front of us.

So....Do what I have done. Find the grenade and throw it to the side or further up. A few times it has been thrown at me, so I took it and threw it back. Of course, the only problem is depending on which way the wind is blowing, it can be very difficult to find the actual grenade. If it is blowing towards you, well look for the most dense smoke and reach in.