Proposition for those looking for that custom edge...

[mobsterboy]

K, the body might have to wait till i test just how well machine grade lexan will withstand shots, dives and such. I'll inquire about other items. Whats the interest in battery packs?

[Pneumagger]

they make delrin turtle cocker bodies that people actually use. But delrin has alot more yeild and resistance to stress isers than does polycarbonate.

[ttink]

Well mag bodies dont actually hold the pressure do they? So why not just make like 4 metal guide rods in the body where the bolt would move, and not have the bolt touch the Lexan at all? You could leave a very small gap between the bolt and thebody so it would not scratch, but the bolt would still work because of the guide rods. Im just throwing this out there, I'm only 15 so I really dont know what im talking about when it comes to Lexan, but i figured I'd give my input.

[slade]

...well. something tells me this wont end very well.

so, how are you planning to have this machined, anyway? i doubt you will have access to the CNC code from AGD europe or deadlywind. are you planning to write your own code, or pay someone to do it for you? do you have a machine shop lined up?

i know you know the parts could fail, but id say the failure is more likely than you think. you said it could break from stress, which is one concern. wear would be more of a worry for me. lexan scratches rather easily. also you have to take into account the fact that lexan is rather flexible. remember, mags require very tight tolerances. not only will the parts have to be machined to tight tolerances, but you cannot have flex in the parts. there can be enough problems with just a ULE body as it is. so even if you get a working body that does not crack or wear out very quickly, it will likely have more problems than a poorly tuned first run x-mag that was left out fully disassembled in a rainstorm.

acid rainstorm.

battery packs would probably sell and would be much less of a problem. you would still have to worry about cracks/stripped threads though, and the battery isnt nearly as interesting to see as the bolt of a mag. you could make a test piece to see strength, and then if all goes well write a short CNC program.

hmm, this reminds me, whatever happened to that vert emag frame that kid on here was going to make?

Most parts in the world operate at about a 3:1 factor of safety. Meaning, you take the yield stress (NOT the UTS) of the material, then divide that by three. That number is your permissible stress in service.

you should have told that to that mechanical engineering professor i had last summer. something came up and i said that a lot of the time parts are tested to 2-3 times their operating stress, and he said that never happens, yield stress is generally somewhere around 20% more than operating stress.

[Troen]

you should have told that to that mechanical engineering professor i had last summer. something came up and i said that a lot of the time parts are tested to 2-3 times their operating stress, and he said that never happens, yield stress is generally somewhere around 20% more than operating stress.

ah, the education system these days.

[slade]

ah, the education system these days.

hmm, i forgot to add the part that both are probably used in different situations, and neither is really completely correct.

[Ace12GA]

Design stress parameters are variable depending on the type of loading in general. I believe a machinery's handbook has tables in regard to design factors for various materials and loading situations. If that doesn't, a good book on materials science probably would. Its been a while since college, so don't quote me on that stuff.

[CoolHand]

hmm, i forgot to add the part that both are probably used in different situations, and neither is really completely correct.

There is no "correct" for factor of safety.

It all boils down to how much risk is acceptable.

In the mining industry, it is not uncommon to design a temporary slope with a FS of less than one, because it won't be there long enough to fail. If it becomes permanent, it gets regraded to stay put indefinitely.

For most steels, there is an FS that will give an infinite service life in situations with cyclical loading, but that is only "correct" if that is what you're after.

I also did not mean for it to sound like the project is impossible, it's just going to be impossible to cut a lexan duplicate of an XMag body and have it work right.

With a proper redesign, it could work, but it seems far too pointless to me to spend that kind of time on.

[the mag guy]

so don't quote me on that stuff.

oooohhh! Quoted! hah j/k man

Ok, i know all this technobabble is fascinating, but I want to bring up one thing. That is a clear cocker. It's body holds pressure, unlike the mags. (im negating when the bolt shoots b/c of the time frame).


I'm not trying to negate what everyone is saying, they are all good points. As for a bit of optimism: If a cocker can do it, so can a mag. It seems to me it would at least last longer than the clear cocker body.

oh and i like the guide rail idea that ttink had. I think it has some potential. this would let you see the bolt in all its glory. it would also be sweet to do a level 10 anti chop video.

I just think that if it is possible, it wont look like your typical mag. I say you mold it to look like a nova 700 (the thickness!!!!) lol.

We can sit here and argue theories all day, I say we get this ball a rollin'!

[mobsterboy]

ok, well, i was thinking at least they'd be like some of maghogs guns. Just beauty for the collector. I'm thinking that if i can get ppl interested in a lexan rail, possibly milled after an alpha styling, or maybe something rogue does, i can meet a minimum order number, and then do a one off for a body, or maybe 2, and test it. Anyone that just wants to dive into this headfirst, lmk.

[Pacifist_Farmer]

Slade did you go to WPI? For some reason I think you once mentioned WPI.


Safety Factor of 2 was what I understood to be the minimum for safe operation, especially something that is going to be right next to your face after you take a dive.

In the paintball world this is likely enough but it is often easy to reach a 3 SF in low pressure cases, so why not?

It should be possible to remelt the surface of the lexan to remove fogging, and relieve some of the residual stresses, although this would destroy any tight tolerances, and sharp edges.

[Rudz]

packs

im intrested in battery cases, and grips, maybe a trigger, a karta rail?

[slade]

There is no "correct" for factor of safety.

sorry, thats exactly what i was saying, guess it didnt come out right. i was trying to say that neither statement about a safety factor was entirely correct, and each is applicable in different situations.

Slade did you go to WPI? For some reason I think you once mentioned WPI.

should i take it as a compliment that you think ive already graduated from college?

i went to WPI last summer for mechanical engineering. thats where i had the teacher i mentioned.

im currently working at methods machine tools for the summer, and have one year of highschool left. WPI isnt my first choice, but it is fairly high on my list of colleges.

before i go any farther, though, i should clarify something, since ive gotten myself into this situation before on AO. The teacher i mentioned was from WPI, but i didnt intend to reflect poorly on either that teacher or on WPI. he was a good teacher, just in that one situation he made it sound like there is one safety factor that is always adhered to, when i know that in many situations a much larger margin of safety is used. when i mentioned that, he essentially said no, safety factors arent that high.

now that ive politely clarified that, its time to be more direct.

As for a bit of optimism: If a cocker can do it, so can a mag.

ugh... did you actually just say that? think about it. "if material A is useable in situation 1, it will be useable in situation 2; while situation 1 and 2 have similarities, they are far different in operation, stress, and required tolerances" ...does that seem like a good assumption to you?

this would let you see the bolt in all its glory. it would also be sweet to do a level 10 anti chop video.

there already is a video of an x-mag with its breech removed pinching a ball.

We can sit here and argue theories all day, I say we get this ball a rollin'!

ugh again... do i even have to say anything to that one?

ok, well, i was thinking at least they'd be like some of maghogs guns. Just beauty for the collector. I'm thinking that if i can get ppl interested in a lexan rail, possibly milled after an alpha styling, or maybe something rogue does, i can meet a minimum order number, and then do a one off for a body, or maybe 2, and test it. Anyone that just wants to dive into this headfirst, lmk.

so far youve mentioned at least 5 different products/companies that you want these products to be like or look like. of course people will use other products or concepts as a reference, but youre essentially just saying "these products are cool, it should be something like this" without putting much thought into origionality or even simply how you are going to do this, who is going to write the code, and in general how everything is going to happen. you mentioned prices, but from how youre talking it seems like youre just throwing ideas out there, hoping someone will bite. as you said, youre basically just diving into this headfirst... the only question is how large the bump on your head is going to be.

and, well, also maybe whether or not said bump will have any effect. so i lied, two questions.

[mobsterboy]

think of it this way slade. Why bother to create a new product WITH a completely new look when cad time will be almost eliminated if i get an existing maker to do it. Depending on who makes the products that are in demand, I will use who is most resourceful for me. This was never a "Im making this" it was a "Proposition (i have this great idea and id like to bring it to AO cuz most of the AO members are either physics majors of some sort, or machinists/ppl who know about this stuff)". To be truthful with you, I never really thought i was going to head up a project just because ive got too much **** in my life anyway. Its more of a "anyone can do this, do you have the patience, resources and effort to?"

BTW, for the haters, and the ones that think it will fail, have you used the machining grade, have you done tests, have you dove with it? I really could care less if it blew up in my face, at least im trying

[the mag guy]

1. ugh... did you actually just say that? think about it. "if material A is useable in situation 1, it will be useable in situation 2; while situation 1 and 2 have similarities, they are far different in operation, stress, and required tolerances" ...does that seem like a good assumption to you?

2.there already is a video of an x-mag with its breech removed pinching a ball.

3. ugh again... do i even have to say anything to that one?

1. if you actually all read my posts here, I said exactly what you did, except I didn't horribly chop your quote and paraphrase your post.

2. Who cares if there is an x-mag w/ its breech removed! It the whole gun clear? I think Not! I dont want to see it pinching a ball, I want to see the thing working.

3. please don't uh again me. See, what I was saying, if you didn't get it, is to take all these suggestions into consideration, but people aren't answering his question. I did. I said I was willing to help fund what I could. I did't see you answer his question. Thats why we should get started on this thing, I'd like to actually see it one day.



lets just chill out and quit complaining about everything. aight?