Proposition for those looking for that custom edge...

[DaveSM]

Don't take it wrong. It could be done but it would need a LOT of re-engineering and calculation to be sure you stay within a correct safety factor for this application.

On the economical side it would also cost a big load of cash to get this tested and done. Our answers may sounds arsh to your hears but a few of us (including myself) know enough about this to warn you that if you don't have the sufficient knowledge to complete this projetc you shouldn't even start it.

Machining grade Lexan won't magically be any better then any other grade of Lexan. It even might be worst. Two days ago I was machining aluminium for my student club (a submarine Autonomus Underwater Vehicule) and I had a piece of aluminium that at first sight it would had seem normal. It had a welding spot on it though. I just picked up this material and started to take away some material. After a short time the piece simply snapped and bent in a way aluminium don't do usually. We stopped machining it and I realized that this parts while heated by the welding process had lost it's T6 heat treatment. I picked another junk of aluminium whitout any weld spot and machined my part whitout any other problems. There is times where you need to use your judgment and this was one of thoses. The material may look alike but what you can do with one might not be doable (sp) with the other one.

Also, a picture of a lexan cocker doesn't prove anything. Had it been aired? Was it only an assembly? How thick is the body? Look at the feedneck and you'll see it's integrated within the body. Try to find pictures from the fishbone cocker by trigernomic. There is simply no more meat left on this cocker but he also said that he would never air up this cocker. It can be done but probably not the way you would like it to be.

[slade]

think of it this way slade. Why bother to create a new product WITH a completely new look when cad time will be almost eliminated if i get an existing maker to do it. Depending on who makes the products that are in demand, I will use who is most resourceful for me. This was never a "Im making this" it was a "Proposition (i have this great idea and id like to bring it to AO cuz most of the AO members are either physics majors of some sort, or machinists/ppl who know about this stuff)". To be truthful with you, I never really thought i was going to head up a project just because ive got too much **** in my life anyway. Its more of a "anyone can do this, do you have the patience, resources and effort to?"

BTW, for the haters, and the ones that think it will fail, have you used the machining grade, have you done tests, have you dove with it? I really could care less if it blew up in my face, at least im trying

well, for starters, who do you expect to hand you their CAD/CAM files, or their CNC code? secondly, if they did, what makes you think you could even use it? if i recall correctly, AGD had to use 7075 aluminum for the ULE bodies. 7075 is much more expensive than 6061, but AGD used 7075 because it is much stronger and strain resistant. karta bodies arent much thicker than ULE bodies. if 6061 aluminum doesnt work, what makes you think lexan will?

The body concept is pretty sweet. I'm pretty sure there are different grades of Lexan so you'd havr to make sure you got the good one. My reasoning behing my statemenet is that I once had a computer case made of entirely lexan. One day last semester, in a freak accident, I watched it fall from a shelf about 3/12 ft off the ground. My poor computer broke into 40+ pieces! The two biggest side were not shattered, but the attachments brok off those. Btw the lexan that was used on my comp was barely over a quarter inch thick.

the mag guy, i read through posts but didnt look at the names of those who posted. but now that i did, i have another comment. are you sure you were actually using lexan? as in, did you buy it from a reputable place labled as lexan, with the lexan brand name on the product? im almost certain you just bought an acrylic computer case. its not a different "grade", its an entirely different material. acrylic shatters easily. polycarbonate, on the other hand... i used a piece of 3/16" lexan for battlebots, and the sheet took a hit from a 50 pound hammer controlled by a 4" bore pneumatic cylinder, probably running at around 100-150 PSI. the sheet was dented, but didnt crack at all.

3. please don't uh again me. See, what I was saying, if you didn't get it, is to take all these suggestions into consideration, but people aren't answering his question. I did. I said I was willing to help fund what I could. I did't see you answer his question. Thats why we should get started on this thing, I'd like to actually see it one day.

fine, then i wont fund his project, because i have an issue with setting fire to money without thinking the outcome fully through. youre essentially saying "lets get started on this" when there are so many issues people are bringing up. would you rather think out and address issues before you drop money into this, or after?

[DaveSM]

well, for starters, who do you expect to hand you their CAD/CAM files, or their CNC code? secondly, if they did, what makes you think you could even use it? if i recall correctly, AGD had to use 7075 aluminum for the ULE bodies. 7075 is much more expensive than 6061, but AGD used 7075 because it is much stronger and strain resistant. karta bodies arent much thicker than ULE bodies. if 6061 aluminum doesnt work, what makes you think lexan will?

I can quote on that too. I did a ULE body by myself as a final project at the CEGEP at the end of my 3 years technical formation in mechanical engineering (I'm now at the university in mechanical engineering). I made it out of 6061-T6 aluminium but I had a lot of trouble with vibrations and thin walls. Machining a functionnal lexan body with 1:1 dimensions is absolutely impossible.

Also it takes a lot of hours to have good G-code. Sloppy G-code can be done fast but if you want to prevent wear on your tools, have a good surface finish and don't lose hours on things you can do in minutes you have to take time and think deeper then that. Also if you change the material you have to change the parameters and test them back. If it works on aluminium, it won't work on steel. If it works on 6061 it might not work on 7075. If it works on 7075, it won't be efficient on 2021. There is a lot of things that has to come into account when you machine something. You do not only clamp the part on the mill and start right away. If it was as easy as using a toaster we wouldn't have engineers.

[the mag guy]

are you sure you were actually using lexan? as in, did you buy it from a reputable place labled as lexan, with the lexan brand name on the product? im almost certain you just bought an acrylic computer case. its not a different "grade", its an entirely different material. acrylic shatters easily. polycarbonate, on the other hand...

...would you rather think out and address issues before you drop money into this, or after?

sorry, i had to chop your quote, but i left the questions addressed to me. And sorry for my post, I read over it and it seemed a bit harsh. I didnt mean it that way. I hate arguing on the net, its pointless.

1. I am not 100% sure. It was a blue case that I bought from a computer store in huntsville, Tx. The sticker on it said Lexan, and the guy gave me some spill how they use it somehow to make bulletproof glass. I wasn't listening tho. I was extremely surprised when it broke, b/c i know it takes a lot to break it. I just didn't feel like telling a 5 page story in a forum. Know that I think about it though, I probably just got ripped off . I don't know too much about lexans and polycarbonates, but I know a little. Thats not why I'm runnin my mouth about specs. I try to stick with the things I know. If I do make a suggestion on a shady topic, I make a suggestion and make sure somone knows its just a suggestion.

2. I would definatley like to think out the issues. I really like reading what y'all have posted, it looks really really helpful to someone doing this project. Mobsterboy said he didn't really care if it blew up in his face, so I am assuming a little trial and error never hurt anyone (unless it really blows up in your face). I was just trying to say that you dont have to have an engineering degree to cut on a piece of lexan. It prolly helps though.


anyway I'm sure with enough theory and testing it will come out just fine.

[mobsterboy]

god, wheres derek to tend to martha when you need him?
slade, I will admit, you brought up good points. A) from talking to one dealer/manufacturer, he didnt seem to mind if I used his CAD files as long as it was through him and there was a $500 minimum order. B) My best bet at this point is prob RRFireblade if he isn't hella busy
C) Why would makers like Deadly wind care if I had them mill something and have them use their own cad files? Especially if they are cad files that have long since been retired, such as karta rails...

Dave, yeah, Im see that Im gonna just need to take a hit to the wallet if I really wanted to do this right and make sure that the strengths, thickness and wear damage is all accounted for. After all, if Im not gonna do it right, better not do it at all. Im gonna see about hitting into some CAD Design classes at my local community college and maybe get a machining class in as well. Physics can't come until next year as that Im only a freshman and the Physics i want requires Math 140. Anyone have CAD skills and want to dabble with some designs for me?

[slade]

sorry, i had to chop your quote, but i left the questions addressed to me. And sorry for my post, I read over it and it seemed a bit harsh. I didnt mean it that way. I hate arguing on the net, its pointless.

1. I am not 100% sure. It was a blue case that I bought from a computer store in huntsville, Tx. The sticker on it said Lexan, and the guy gave me some spill how they use it somehow to make bulletproof glass. I wasn't listening tho. I was extremely surprised when it broke, b/c i know it takes a lot to break it. I just didn't feel like telling a 5 page story in a forum. Know that I think about it though, I probably just got ripped off . I don't know too much about lexans and polycarbonates, but I know a little. Thats not why I'm runnin my mouth about specs. I try to stick with the things I know. If I do make a suggestion on a shady topic, I make a suggestion and make sure somone knows its just a suggestion.

2. I would definatley like to think out the issues. I really like reading what y'all have posted, it looks really really helpful to someone doing this project. Mobsterboy said he didn't really care if it blew up in his face, so I am assuming a little trial and error never hurt anyone (unless it really blows up in your face). I was just trying to say that you dont have to have an engineering degree to cut on a piece of lexan. It prolly helps though.


anyway I'm sure with enough theory and testing it will come out just fine.

yeah, you pretty much did get ripped off. it wasnt actually lexan. there is bulletproof polycarbonate though, although its around an inch thick.

god, wheres derek to tend to martha when you need him?
slade, I will admit, you brought up good points. A) from talking to one dealer/manufacturer, he didnt seem to mind if I used his CAD files as long as it was through him and there was a $500 minimum order. B) My best bet at this point is prob RRFireblade if he isn't hella busy
C) Why would makers like Deadly wind care if I had them mill something and have them use their own cad files? Especially if they are cad files that have long since been retired, such as karta rails...

Dave, yeah, Im see that Im gonna just need to take a hit to the wallet if I really wanted to do this right and make sure that the strengths, thickness and wear damage is all accounted for. After all, if Im not gonna do it right, better not do it at all. Im gonna see about hitting into some CAD Design classes at my local community college and maybe get a machining class in as well. Physics can't come until next year as that Im only a freshman and the Physics i want requires Math 140. Anyone have CAD skills and want to dabble with some designs for me?

well, of course someone will do the CAM/CNC work for you if youre paying them. but its highly unlikely someone is going to just hand you their designs or code. Xmags are no longer in production and someone on AO asked for the CNC file a while ago... he didnt get it. i doubt deadlywind would just hand out their designs and programs that they put so much work into, regardless of whether or not they are still producing their bodies. but hey, go ahead and ask them, and if they will tell them to send a copy my way. but its not going to happen.

i actually looked into community college courses a while ago, and it seemed as if everything had a prerequisite. you want to take a class to learn pro-e? well sure, they have it, but you first have to take a computer aided design class, and before that a general engineering design class, and before that...

[mobsterboy]

i actually looked into community college courses a while ago, and it seemed as if everything had a prerequisite. you want to take a class to learn pro-e? well sure, they have it, but you first have to take a computer aided design class, and before that a general engineering design class, and before that...

If between FAFSA federal grants, state lottery funding and my life scholarship Im getting a surplus amount to do whatever I want in a community instate college for the two years. I will be there, why not take some extra classes I evidently have an interest in? My backup plan, although very messy and requiring more time spent in the classroom should i choose it halfway through, is engineering. I just find that business is something i have more of an interest in. Particularly finance and international, which the college I'm going to has a great program for (University of South Carolina).

As far as the cad design stuff, if Im paying them do make a product they already have designs for, they could just charge me a minimum cop-out fee for the designs when they use them, why would they charge fullprice for something they already have around though? If that was the case, Id have them totally redesign the whole body to a completely different look. No need to pay the same amount for a less unique look.