Tippmann, BT and Ben

[punkncat]

In contrast WGP and AGD will support a product made 15 years ago. In that light is it really so "rediculous" for me to expect the industry leader to support their products?

Consider that AGD is still selling the same design they made 15 years ago as new product (under new ownership and supposedly on limited parts). Aftermarket parts for WGP markers, especially for mechs are slowly becoming harder to find, but are still available, so long as you want something for a 2K+ design. Both of these markers are veritable icons of the industry. The 68 was not so popular as they....

I agree with many of the points of your well worded response. I just can't see stopping support of a company that has made and continues to make good products for the low end market. Considering the direction that the industry as a whole is going companies have to work on trimming down. An unfortunate side effect of that is that product quality and support generally suffer for it, especially in the consideration of older, discontinued products.

[FromTheBack]

Yah, this is the direction tippman is going....

I don't know why a tippmann effect player (I am guessing that's an effect guy in the ad) would shoot this over the 98's they have unless it is really that much better. On the bright side this material could be composite and much lighter but really, they could of done better to not make it look like a child's toy. and so bulky.

On the left it looks to be a smaller version tourny version and on the right a rec. version.

[bleachit]

that new tippy looks familiar... I just cant seem to put my finger on it.

[SlartyBartFast]

I don't know why a tippmann effect player (I am guessing that's an effect guy in the ad) would shoot this over the 98's they have unless it is really that much better.

[SlartyBartFast]

that new tippy looks familiar... I just cant seem to put my finger on it.

[Chronobreak]

are they really using them or did somone just give him one and have him slide for a pic?

[Al_Steel]

I agree with many of the points of your well worded response. I just can't see stopping support of a company that has made and continues to make good products for the low end market. Considering the direction that the industry as a whole is going companies have to work on trimming down. An unfortunate side effect of that is that product quality and support generally suffer for it, especially in the consideration of older, discontinued products.

Well considering Tippmann is now being run by the number crunchers and not by the players I am willing to bet that we will start seeing a lot more high volume, low dollar products (look what happened to Brass Eagle) and less high dollar, low volume products. It's all about the $$$ now. Go read Summit Partner's website (www.summitpartners.com), I don't see too many people there with the best intrests of the paintball community in mind. Venture capitalists like to see a quick return on their investment and the best way to do that is through sales volume. S-Mart style distribution is a REAL quick way to a larger bottom line. NEVER underestimate the influance a large investor can have on a company, especially if that investor has hand picked managers for the company they have invested in.

You don't really expect Tippmann to be able to re-coup a huge investment in manufacturing upgrades by selling A-5's through internet sales and pro-shops do you? That is a drop in the bucket compared to the sales that can be realized through large brick-and-mortar retail chains. And we all know what the final deciding factor is in sales in that form of distribution is.. yup cost! Not reliability, not end-user support, not industry reputation but straight up dollars. You set a Brass Eagle next to a Tippmann on the shelf of S-Mart and they better damn well be within $20.00 of each other or there will be a lot of Tippy's on the clearance rack when it's time to rotate inventory. Most purchasers in that kind of outlet are buying with liittle to no product knowledge, on impulse, based solely on what's written on the box, what little Johnny has seen in a ad, or (horrors!) on what the sales associate suggests. What's worse is there are a LOT more of those kinds of buyers then there are of us.

To maintain the kind of margins that are necessary to remain competitive in THAT kind of marketplace you have to reduce overhead somewhere and the first place that happens is in post-sales support. I hope I'm wrong, but if that's the market Tippmann is going for fellas, pretty soon you are going to call Tippmann for customer support and you will get: Press 1 for the Triumph, Press 2 for the Model 98, etc. and if you are lucky you will get forwarded to a person that speaks English as a second language.

Lord I hope I'm wrong, but I'm sure Ben left for a good reason.

[Jaan]

Everyone knows that. Pot, meet kettle.

[SlartyBartFast]

Everyone knows that. Pot, meet kettle.

Well it's not so clear the poster I quoted is clear on the concept....

[FromTheBack]

Well it's not so clear the poster I quoted is clear on the concept....

I know what you are calling me out for and yes I know that teams use what they are sponsored by because they are supposed to promote it, including newer products such as the Triumph. I really was just not expecting to be attacked on AO. Excuse me next time I will edit my post with the upmost importance for clarity and consistancy.

Come on man, it's a forum, I am merely sharing my thoughts and you can be respectful. After a full day of classes I don't feel like fine combing my posts on AO because I suspect most people to be friendly in the relaxed environment. It's obvious you are just looking for a reason to engage someone negatively. You really could be more courteous.

And really to engage what I stated prior, it could be said that TE should endorse a tournament level marker instead of a lower level marker. I never ultimately stated I didn't know, I just am doubting the credibility of a gun that looks like this.

I don't know why a tippmann effect player (I am guessing that's an effect guy in the ad) would shoot this over the 98's they have unless it is really that much better.

[Lohman446]

And really to engage what I stated prior, it could be said that TE should endorse the tournament level marker and I never ultimately stated I didn't know, I just am doubting the credibility of a gun that looks like this.

Well, least its a well thought out and reasoned concern

[FromTheBack]

haha you just drew my attention to what I said, fixed. I need to stop rushing these posts .

[paint magnet]

Hasnt anyone thought of the day when AGD stopped supporting the classic mag valve?

Well, about 15 years from that day would really suck

[Al_Steel]

Well, about 15 years from that day would really suck

oh wait a min... smart a$$

[rabidchihauhau]

Well considering Tippmann is now being run by the number crunchers and not by the players I am willing to bet that we will start seeing a lot more high volume, low dollar products (look what happened to Brass Eagle) and less high dollar, low volume products. It's all about the $$$ now. Go read Summit Partner's website (www.summitpartners.com),

there are approximately three stories that have come out of the TS/BT incident:

1. ben and family did it once they knew summit was going to buy in so that they would have a mfg channel that remained their own

2. BT had arguments with other family members and sought his own outside investors

3. outside investors approached BT to set things up when they heard what was going on

Regardless, we're here and the situation is the way it is, which is a good case in point for where the industry has been going since at least last summer.

This is a changed industry. Its third era. From 81 until about 90, paintball was a mom and pop industry with garage-based engineers and mfg operations. The afficianados ran the businesses so that they could play and have the gear they wanted to use themselves.

from 90 until 2004, it was the era of 'getting big'; the industry made a quasi-move in trying to attract outside dollars, outside distribution chains, overseas manufacturing, etc. This era was characterized by 'embracing new ideas with OLD thinking'. Many companies believed that they could drain their cash flow in order to create marketshare. Wrong. What they ended up doing was wasting a lot of money fighting over the same small niche market, when instead they should have been BUILDING the base. The result - tight dollars in a relatively small industry.

Now we've had two summers of closing stores and fields, reduced orders, etc., etc., negative spiral as the few dollars that people have are being spent to protect their ever-diminishing market shares.

I note that right now at least three paint manufacturers seem to be dumping paint onto the market; sure, they're clearing out the warehouses for fall. right. and a month from now do you think the field owners are going to have forgotten that just a few weeks ago they got the same brand of paint for half of what they're being charged now? Not. If they took advantage of the sale, do you think they're going to be reordering in a month...? and so goes the ever diminishing cycle as new orders slow down becauswe the pipeline is choked with older, albeit cheaper, product...

The NEW era in paintball will be characterized by: more companies doing things in a real business manner (which means fewer personal touches, less tolerance for industry bs, contracts that aren't 'just paper' and a new round of lawsuits focusing not on intellectual property but on 'unfair business practices').

The slowdown in sponsorship over the past two summers is a case in point. All of a sudden, companies are actually looking at their ROI in regards to sponsorship and realizing that they've been spending a whole lot for very litte. This seems like a bad thing to teams and events, buts its actually a good business move for the future of the industry. Dollars spent effectively on promotion will help grow the industry and will return more dollars to those companies, making them healthier and, it will help focus promotions on those efforts that are actually being effective.

The 'friends network' of dollar spending in the industry is going bye bye in favor of smart business moves.

Back to tippmann and summit partners. Go to their page and check out the pattern in their portfolio of companies: look at the year they invested and where that company is now...