07 Shocker

[lufkom]

screw smart parts....so wut agd hasnt come out with a new gun in a while. ive seen mags way faster then any shocker. not as light but still just lift some wieghts and ul be fine :]

[SR_matt]

There sure are a lot of people who shoot those "crappy" guns.

If you can give me five good -justified- reasons why the shocker is so insuperior to other high end electronic marker., I'll admit that smart parts is an evil company, and their products are garbage.

1-metal quality-crapy and inconsistant, resulting in crapy inconsistant anos
2-the guns didnt coem standard with eyes until what this year?
3-poor efficenty
4-spool valve guns always have problems with leaks
5-even members of dynasty said the sp guns they were shooting were turds and it is a fact they had to have multiple guns per player because they broke so much paint and malfunctioned so often they couldnt use teh same gun in mreo than 1 game befoer it needed to be fixed or cleaned.

so SP= nazis and their stuff is garbage

but any way i will admit the ions can be good guns... once u have very few to no stock parts any more.
-matt

[neppo1345]

screw smart parts....so wut agd hasnt come out with a new gun in a while. ive seen mags way faster then any shocker. not as light but still just lift some wieghts and ul be fine :]

Easy Response: Go back to PBN.

Mature Response: Please try to broaden your vocabularly, you could have used much more descriptive language than "screw smart parts". Also, try to use actual words while in an argument. If you still choose to use 'english' in that manner PbNation may be better suited for your posting needs.

Sincerely,

Tim Britt

Edited to be mature.

[SR_matt]

why does everyone have to just come back with immature resonces like "STFU" or "go back to pbn" if you are going to argue any thing come back with facts or at least personal experances (which hopefuly are facts but probably will be argued against unless you han document what happens).

but seriously if anyone wants to argue be mature about it for goodness sake

-matt

[Shirow]

That is one of the ugliest things Ive ever seen.

Looks like it would be fun to clean paint out of.

[kenndogg]

1-metal quality-crapy and inconsistant, resulting in crapy inconsistant anos
2-the guns didnt coem standard with eyes until what this year?
3-poor efficenty
4-spool valve guns always have problems with leaks
5-even members of dynasty said the sp guns they were shooting were turds and it is a fact they had to have multiple guns per player because they broke so much paint and malfunctioned so often they couldnt use teh same gun in mreo than 1 game befoer it needed to be fixed or cleaned.

so SP= nazis and their stuff is garbage

but any way i will admit the ions can be good guns... once u have very few to no stock parts any more.
-matt

1.SP touted a higher quality aluminum with the NXT models
2.should of been a given on the older models, actually I don't really see places that sell nonvisioned shockers anymore.
3.isn't any worse than dye's dm guns
4.properly lubing your equipment prevents this
5.don't really like dynasty...so the more misfortunes that comes their way, the better.

[neppo1345]

There's nothing to 'get over' - it's not like they made a mistake to be forgiven.

I'm not saying their products are complete garbage - they're not. Why are they in the business though? For absolutely no reason other than financial gain. How anyone can have respect for a company like that is just beyond me, personally.

I mean, let's compare it to AGD since we're sitting here in the AO forums. The patent thing is not a genius business move, it's an obnoxious practice that is, unfortunately, on the rise - make money and attempt to stifle competition by getting issued broad patents that are really beyond the scope of what patents are designed to do.

If they really make a wonderful product, they wouldn't have felt the need to sue everyone around them. Can you see AGD doing something like that? Or AKA? Or hell, any other respectable paintball company?

Let's look at some of their innovations. An undeniably, cheaply built electronic marker in a fancy box with interchangable body sleeves for kids that just HAVE to have a red gun? Sorry, but that just doesn't do it for me. Why do people buy Ions? Because they are cheap, and they perform the minimum duties you require from a gun of that type. That's not innovation. Good marketing? Sure. Most 17 year olds will buy anything with a half naked chick on it that's spread across 3 pages of every magazine.

Ask yourself this:

Why do people buy automags? Is it the price, the advertising or the AGD website? No, it's because anyone that has any understanding or appreciation for engineering understands the quality of the product and the talent of the people that designed it.
Why do people buy Ions? Is it the price, the advertising or the SP website? It's one of the three. Nobody buys an Ion because it's a wonderfully engineered marker by a company headed by a personable guy with great engineering skills.

I'm not denying their ability to market well to their target demographic. That's never been in question. Does it make them a house of innovation and quality? No. There isn't a single SP marker that I have ever desired to own, even before this whole thing - they are all flash, bikinis and quick words.

The difference between AGD (of old, anyway) and SP is this:

I can see Tom and pals coming to work and slaving away over new ideas for the love of the sport and to be able to share their creations with other fans.

I see SP people coming, sitting in their cubes and trying to figure out a way to repackage the same gun for 07 by making it a different color and getting a new chick to take her clothes off for it.

Bear in mind that this is a subjective thing. Some people might respect that.

To me, I have no interest in buying a product from people that produce it for NO OTHER REASON than to generate revenue. Those types of companies don't have you or me in mind, they have your money in mind. They typically aren't getting it by being the best, they are getting it by trying to push other people out and convincing the public to buy their product through garbage advertising.

I don't think SP is the only company around to act this way, but they are definitely the top of a filthy pile.

Bear in mind I'm an opinionated and you are perfectly free to insult and disregard anything I say. Sorry, but I just can't get excited over somebody posting information on a new Shocker at AO.

Yes, they are in business to make money. Who isn't?

Yes, their advertising is amazing (Sex Sells). However, I can go back to paintball magazines from the late 90's and see girls half naked with a gun...most of those companies aren't around anymore. So SP must be doing something better than advertising.

Yeah, they might not come out with the newest technical innovations every year...but who does? The ion is amazing for what is. Simplicity. I also happen to know that there are some new technical innovations coming out for the ion, improving it to the point to where a friend put down his ego for one.

SP started out just like every other paintball company, including AGD. Making improvements for the love of the sport. They grew, and once you get so big, you have to start to act as a business. AGD would probably be the same way had it not been for Tom's morals (opposition to high ROF's and the likes (Tom...correct me if I'm wrong)).

You're correct, people do buy mags because of their quality, I won't deny that. They're the highest quality guns still available. It's like comparing a U.S. sniper rifle to an AK 47. They both kill people, neither necessarily does it better, but one is cheaper. Which one do you see more of around the world? The people who know guns take the Sniper Rifle (mag), those who want simply get the job done get an AK (Ion).

We're all opinionated. I won't attack your beliefs, only give you mine so you can see where I'm coming from.

-Tim

[BigEvil]

Kudos to them for 'freshening up' the product. Im not a huge SP fan at all, but they know how to move product.

Alot of people have been *****ing that AGD do the exact same thing with the Emag - refine it. While its not exactly the next step up in technology, it is enough to make people want them.

[SR_matt]

You're correct, people do buy mags because of their quality, I won't deny that. They're the highest quality guns still available. It's like comparing a U.S. sniper rifle to an AK 47. They both kill people, neither necessarily does it better, but one is cheaper. Which one do you see more of around the world? The people who know guns take the Sniper Rifle (mag), those who want simply get the job done get an AK (Ion).

We're all opinionated. I won't attack your beliefs, only give you mine so you can see where I'm coming from.

-Tim

no the ion is more comperable to an m16, finiky at times, made half form plastic, many versions that are not really different at all, it can do its job but its not a tank. an ak 47 is more like a tipman, u can put it through any thing and it will work just like an ak 47.
-matt

[neppo1345]

1-metal quality-crapy and inconsistant, resulting in crapy inconsistant anos - Bad batches happen.
2-the guns didnt coem standard with eyes until what this year? - What gun did?
3-poor efficenty - I give you the mag.
4-spool valve guns always have problems with leaks - 90% of guns on the market.
5-even members of dynasty said the sp guns they were shooting were turds and it is a fact they had to have multiple guns per player because they broke so much paint and malfunctioned so often they couldnt use teh same gun in mreo than 1 game befoer it needed to be fixed or cleaned. - I don't know anyone on dynasty...do you?

so SP= nazis and their stuff is garbage

but any way i will admit the ions can be good guns... once u have very few to no stock parts any more.
-matt

Fixed

[SR_matt]

no nto bad batches that are random, i used to work witha guy that was a certified tech and had been around paintball for over 10 years. SP at least used to get AL from where ever was cheapest and what ever alloy they could get. hence why there were bad batches.

most e-guns have come standard with eyes for 2 years now

ok whoppie mags are around the same efficenty u wanted reasons teh shockers were bad, and also shockers run at half the psi as mags (dont start the LP is less efficent BS my friend has droped his old ST hookup cocker to 70 psi in the resevoir and not lost efficenty)

90% of guns have leaks commonly? really, the only guns on my team that have leaked in teh last 2 years were the spoolers (and my team mates and i have had cockers, angels, mags, phantoms, spyders, a pgp, sniper 2, timmies, trixies and shockers)

i dont know dynasty but i worked with and still see a friend that palys on mantis factory and i know a few people that write articles and take pics for many pb mags that have talked to and play with dynasty.

-matt

[grEnAlEins]

Alot of you guys badmouth shockers, Why? I own one and like it well enough. It has never given me any major trouble, it just needs alot of lube and even more air Throw in a new bolt kit and they are darn nice. That said, I do like other guns better The only thing nice about the NXT shockers is the break beam eyes. IMHO it is not worth buying a new gun just for that though, so I'll keep my "old school" ( ) bounce beam shocker.

[neppo1345]

no nto bad batches that are random, i used to work witha guy that was a certified tech and had been around paintball for over 10 years. SP at least used to get AL from where ever was cheapest and what ever alloy they could get. hence why there were bad batches. - Once again, bad batches happen. You can't tell what will happen to anno after three months of use.

most e-guns have come standard with eyes for 2 years now - So have shockers. Yeah, you could get a cheap one without them, all that did was give performance to people who couldn't afford it. That cheaper niche was filled by the ion, so why make them optional anymore?

ok whoppie mags are around the same efficenty u wanted reasons teh shockers were bad, and also shockers run at half the psi as mags (dont start the LP is less efficent BS my friend has droped his old ST hookup cocker to 70 psi in the resevoir and not lost efficenty) Your point?

90% of guns have leaks commonly? really, the only guns on my team that have leaked in teh last 2 years were the spoolers (and my team mates and i have had cockers, angels, mags, phantoms, spyders, a pgp, sniper 2, timmies, trixies and shockers) - I never said that all spoolers leak, I was stating that 90% of the guns on the market are spoolers, and according to you, leak.

i dont know dynasty but i worked with and still see a friend that palys on mantis factory and i know a few people that write articles and take pics for many pb mags that have talked to and play with dynasty. - Any gun that has that amount of paint out through it on a weekly basis will break down. It's a fact of life, if you shoot 8,000 + balls a week, and don't maintain your marker, it'll break.

-matt

k

[mag_lover05]

does anyone else LOL over the fact that the 200 dollor ion has break beam eyes and is more efficient, yet costs less then used shockers?! and now that all the bugs are worked out ions are very nice guns. and im not goin to say "nice for the price" cuz they would still be nice if they cost more than they do... so why is shocker just now "catching up"

[wjr]

I never said that all spoolers leak, I was stating that 90% of the guns on the market are spoolers, and according to you, leak.

Are you sure about that? It seems like most guns use a poppet type valve.

To me there is nothing wrong with the shocker. SP may have "ruined" several companies, but who wouldn't have? I don't think it's fair to be angry at a company for trying to make money.