What can we learn from the Bobby Dukes story?

[geekwarrior]

Have you actually played or watched a tournament lately? Or gone to dinner after with the guys who play? Calling current methods effective, at least around here, is ludicrous.

PS: I have yet to see evidence of the league financially penalizing a player after video review. Maybe it happens, but they sure do not do so publically, as opposed to the fines handed out by other "real" sports.

anybody catch the dynasty vs joy game at the nppl?

vids kinda long...

nppl

[coreyander]

have you actually played a or watched a tourney lately? Your the person on a public forum calling for expulsion for a wipe or banned for a bonus ball....hmmm....

Im not speaking for where you play. Im speaking from my experience where I play. Your field/league must really suck if you have to complain about it that much lohman. Cheating around here is not really that much of a problem. We have like 2 refs for each player, and they are pretty rough on you if you get caught cheating. They certainly dont make the remainder of your games pleasant ones.

[Lohman446]

have you actually played a or watched a tourney lately? Your the person on a public forum calling for expulsion for a wipe or banned for a bonus ball....hmmm....

Im not speaking for where you play. Im speaking from my experience where I play. Your field/league must really suck if you have to complain about it that much lohman. Cheating around here is not really that much of a problem. We have like 2 refs for each player, and they are pretty rough on you if you get caught cheating. They certainly dont make the remainder of your games pleasant ones.

Where is this mythical tournament series? The only fully honest tournament I have ever played was OGD - btw, guess what the penalty for wiping is. As to where I play - various local tournaments, as well as PSP about once a year, a few other tournament series here and there when I feel like it. The point is this, I would love the sport to be clean, but I've watched games, watched interviews of "pros", talked to players - its not. It almost seems to me that you are insinuating it is.

If you think people who are good at it cannot wipe with a ref near them, you are sadly naive. And you know what, with the penalty being 3 for 1, and only getting caught 5% of the time (I doubt that though), its well worth taking in a risk to reward aspect.

Yeh, I called for a severe penalty for accidental overshooting? No, I see it as a 1 for 1 and enforce that rule, and play by it. When did I make this call? Oh, the intentional shooting of someone outside of the context of the game bonus balling? Yeh, you're right, I call for major penalties for what borders on battery.

[coreyander]

Ive seen ppl in the snake get shot out. Stand up, put their hand on their head.....but the ref was not immediately pulling them out, so they stand in your lane and walk back and forth intentionally trying to get into your stream and then yell and make an effort to get a 1 for 1 for bonus balling. Whose the cheater there? Seriously, do you expect the refs and everyone to throw a fit and spin around on the ground kicking and screaming because someone rubbed a hit off on a bunker? Thatll be the day.


you are construing cheating as wiping being pretty much one of the only penalties. And I play rookie. Its in TX and its a KMT series. I dont play psp or nppl for the fact that I cannot afford it and have a wife and children at home and cannot go play and spend money on a hobbie. So playing psp makes you better? just because youve talked to a pro makes you a great player? please. Ive played against and with many ppl that play psp and nppl..... to name one TX/Dallas storm. Granted that was a couple years ago. I didnt play on the team, just practiced w/ them some.

So......again, it seems like you think you are going to be able to change the entire sport of paintball by posting complaints on AO. AO is not necessarily the biggest tourney scene site. All its going to do is get a lot of ppl that play for recreation and fun (like myself), to agree with you about cheating or wiping. You have to admit, inevitibly......its quite a waste of time and effort when in the end will achieve nothing.

Seriously, do you not realize that? Do you really think ranting about it on AO is going to make a difference? If so....please continue.

[Lohman446]

I defined where I play only because you came across as discounting my experiences as the exception to the rule. It was simply an effort to point out I have played more than just local tournaments, observed mroe than just local tournaments, and beleive my observations to have some meaning.

Does discussing things not promote change? Funny, locally I act as head ref at a handful of tournaments a year. Perhaps I was getting feelers of where people I respected stood on how to deal with cheating...

Do I really care if it changes cheating? No, I just wonder where we would be if the Bobby Dukes story was more accurate to reality, or reality was more accurate to it.

[coreyander]

no its cool. Im not posting to refute what you say because I am the opposition. I actually agree with you on cheating. I guess I just handle it differently. I just dont see it changing much in the near future. Who knows, I may be wrong.

As a ref the only thing you can really do is be more aggressive when you call someone out on cheating. Make it a big deal. Sit someone out, if its a tourney, pull a 1 for 1. Threaten if they do it again, theyre dq'd.

Other than that, there really isnt much that can be done, even rallying support for it. Most paintballers never make it to the level of pro, psp, nxl, nppl, etc, so even if they support your cause......it still wont change pro ball. And all these new paintballer kids and wannabe pros (or at least acting like them, guns, clothes, gear, cheating etc), are going to see it and still do it anyway.

I say we ban paintball forever. Every state, every country. Just throw the sport away. Execute the ppl that cheated, throw the ones that survive in jail w/ bobby duke. And everytime I see someone run a redlight around here just because the last four cars did it, Im going to chase them down run them off the side of the road, scream at their window about how I think running redlights is dangerous and against the law. *joking*. :P.

[coreyander]

and just an fyi about cheating and fairness and stiff penalties.

watch this vid. Id foward it to 16:45 where the ref starts explaining the penalties and the contreversey about what happened.

joy got a 6 game suspension. Id say thats pretty stiff. Enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OodM5UDBlAI

[thecavemankevin]

well, i actually just finished watching it and really if you want to watch it then watch the fisrt 15 or so minutes then fastforward to the tournament. the rest is boreing filler. Its funny watching much of the paintball sceens, its like going back in time several years when Angels and GZ timmies were still prevelant. I even saw one guy using a warp


as for what we can learn....well nothing really. Either you're honest and dont cheat or you are not and do. should there be stiffer penalties, yes but when the big buck sponsored teams also have their factories with a lot of influence over the series and promotors then these teams will get off with a slap on the wrist.

such is life. cant do anything about it short of starting your own series/league. they arent democracies for a reason.

[coreyander]

do you consider a suspension for the player and the loss of a 25000 dollar game not a stiff penaly when you earn a living playing paintball? Thats like.....uhhm....unpaid suspension. I wouldnt be happy about it if I were suspended and cost our team a title.

what do you guys recommend should happen to the player then? expelled from the league? Banned from paintball for life? Seriously....what are you asking for?

[SR_matt]

we are saying people should be banned for mor than the rest of the game or just the tourney.

also who makes a living playing paintball? last i heard there were 2 teams in all of the different series that actualy live off playing.
-matt

[coreyander]

what? are you kidding. What do you think pro teams like xsv, dynasty, ironmen, etc do? The make money off of endorsements and playing paintball. How do you think these guys practice 5 times a week, travel, train, etc....and work at a real job?

And I disagree about someone being banned to the extent you refer over an infraction.