Now and then and ancient history

[__Phoenix__]

Sure the cost is better nowadays for tournament ball. But I still see how that in anyway indicates teams nowadays are "better".

If you could put the old school teams versus modern teams on the field with old school tech... I'd be willing to bet the '96 teams wins 99% of the time. Put the '96 team on a sup Air field with Dynasty or Ironmen, and the modern team will win 99% of the time.

One major difference between then and now though is certainly the decrease in cost to the typical recballer. I remember back when I was young, me and 3 friend had to scrounge for cash for a week or two to split the cost of a case of ProBall at $80/case. Field entry was $25 per person back then. Then we all paid for our own guns, co2, and masks. We played 2vs2 outlaw in the woods next to a freeway. I shot a Hammer, One guy shot a Silver Eagle, One kid had a Spyder, and the other had a prolite. When our dad's came out to ball, they brought along an automag, Minimag, automag, and 68 carbine. They whooped up every time.

And the main distinction for me in all of this:
If I could choose between paying top dollar for paintballing back then with CO2/pumps/spyders and ($80 case + $25 entry) versus cheap paintballing today with $200 electros and ($40 case + $10 entry).... I would choose oldschool everytime.
There was more respect back then, more integrity, and less cheating.

[rabidchihauhau]

well, referring to paintball in 1996 as 'old school' seems kind of funny to me. When I think old school, I think 1983 to 1989...

I'd take woodsball tournaments any day now also. At least temporarily, it would be the least expensive ball around.

Oh well...

[Vendetta]

This brings back lots of memories. Our tem used to scrimage all the time with the FL teminators. Needless to say, we were always getting beat, but those were fun games. Thing got really bad when they switched to Automags, and we were still shooting Bushmasters.

[hitech]

One BIG difference is the balance between moving and firing. Back then it was just about 50/50 whether moving or shooting was your best option. Today, its more like 90 (shooting) versus 10 (moving)...

FINALLY, someone who agrees with me!

BTW, my first tournament game ever was against Navarone. My first tournament elimination was the team captain!

I've been hooked ever since.

[hitech]

$131 per player - a whopping $26 dollar difference

But, taking inflation into account, and the fact that I made way less back then...

[hitech]

I'd take woodsball tournaments any day now also...

You're making me sentimental. Stop it be I start to


At least I don't feel as old anymore. At least it was a mid-eighties start in PB for me...

[Aggravated Assault]

I remember back when I was young, me and 3 friend had to scrounge for cash for a week or two to split the cost of a case of ProBall at $80/case.

I remember the cases were more like $125/case, maybe a shade more.

Thats prolly why I had to make those 500rd bags the field sold last all day.....

I shot a Hammer, One guy shot a Silver Eagle, One kid had a Spyder, and the other had a prolite.

The first gun I bought was a Trracer when they first came out. I'm thinking 92' (?) VM's/PMI-3's and F1's were the rage at the field I played at the time. I remember wanting a bushmaster sooo bad too. I ended up buying a Line SI Promaster instead. God, was that a mistake Only took me till 2004 to get it running good.

[rabidchihauhau]

Promasters were made by a different machine company than the original bushmasters; if you wanted a 'real' bushmaster, you found a 'sigma' bushmaster.

Here's my marker progression

rental pgp (no pump)
rental pgp (with pump)
puchased PGP, no serial number
McMurray & Sons Annihilator
Modded the above with extended pump, stick feed and autotrigger
Line SI Bushmaster
Carter Comp, Original Nellie, Sheridan rifle (cut stock, direct feed, quickchanger)
(the above purchased in a lot from Rich Plinke)
TASO Vindicator (beat the bushmaster cold for accuracy)
Gray Ghost (THE BEST EVER)
PMI-3
Automag (played with it for 9 years!!!)
Autococker
Angel (LCD)
E-Mag
Matrix
EGO
Ion
Alien

plus a bunch of borrowed markers - Phantom, Intimidators, Spyders, Tippmanns

[Aggravated Assault]

Promasters were made by a different machine company than the original bushmasters; if you wanted a 'real' bushmaster, you found a 'sigma' bushmaster.

I'll Remember that. I have been (unsucessfuly) nosing around on and off for a bushmaster again. Is sigma the orig. manufacturer? Was it "bought out" by Line SI...?

Ya, about the promaster, from what I've read, there were actually different companies (shops?) doing knock-offs and puting them out as the real thing.

Thanks to some insight on the Pukin' Dogs website (mucho thanks Dogs!!! ) I found out spyder parts practally drop in. I have a little problem w/ it recocking once in a while, but, It is accurate, the trigger pull is crisp and short, plus it's really light. A great old semi I find myself pulling out several times during the year now.

McMurray & Sons Annihilator
Modded the above with extended pump, stick feed and autotrigger

One of my first real paintball friends (he had been a field owner in the 80's), had this monster called an "Enforcer". wonder if it was also put out by the same company. Holy Crap, he was DEAD EYE with that thing. It weighed a ton too. No auto trigger and he could stroke it as fast or faster than anyone. I was in awe

TASO Vindicator (beat the bushmaster cold for accuracy)
Gray Ghost (THE BEST EVER)

If I ever get my bushie, here's where I will go next. I would bet they are prolly getting hard to find as well.

[Triangle]

Its so funny to hear talk of Line SI Bushmasters. I used to dream of owning one back in the late 80', but the parental units wouldnt allow. I was underage, so I didnt have a choice. Which is why I didnt technically start playing until early 90's.

Back then I had done my research and either wanted a Reb or a Line SI Bushie. Nowadays, I make mention of the Reb pump, and nobody knows what I am talking about.

My first purchase was a VM-68 "Sniper Rifle". I had no clue back then. That thing was a brick. It was purchased from a co-worker, his name Steve Van Wormer, who claimed to have opened and operated one of the first major paintball field in the area. These VM-68's were field rentals I suppose. I guess due to land lease politics(flood district) the field lease was not renewed. That has happened allot in SoCal from my understanding.

Paintball was a blast back then. Sometimes, just preparing to go out was more fun than the actual day of play. The first days of play bring back such vivid memories.

Good times.

This one?

I got mine from my dad. I gave it away years ago and now I regret doing so.

[Lenny]

Even though I'm newer (1998), I am captivated by older play. I wish there were more woods tourney's, more pumps, etc. I love the old electros (Bob's old Defiant, Angel LCD, shoeboxes, yeah...).

And by the way, I like the red Reb's. I think they look the best, but when it comes down to it, it's just another Nelson base... And I like Sheridans...

My local proshop owner (Dan @ Underground Sports) owns the owner of BOA's old Line SI. That thing is cool. The action is soooo smooth! He has a couple other rarities, but that's my favorite.

Just adding my occurance with the past.

[bentothejam1n]

okay - here's a few more:

today - 450 - 550 rounds per player per game

markers - Ions, Egos, Timmies, Angels, Aliens, Qwests, ICD, Invert, etc

air systems - 4500 psi HPA (screw in/non-adjustable reg)

loaders - 180+ round forcefeed system

other - eyes, RF communications, bluetooth, MP3 players in grips :)

Other stuff:

15 man - army boots/jungle boots/hi-techs

'96 - 3/4 ankle softball/football cleats

today - mde for paintball shoes

15 man - goggles, maybe a half mask

'96 - $45 systems

today - almost $100 systems

15 man - uniforms were cammo - an unusual pattern if you could find it

'96 -= custom jersies, som pants made for pb

today - custom uniforms

15 man - hardly any padding

96 - knee/shin pads, elbow/forearm pads

today - padding integrated into uniforms, slider shorts, neck protectors, etc., etc

how about air supply comparisons

15 man ball - 12-grams: everyone learned where to get them at a discount, about .25 - .35 per cartridge. Towards the end, you could get about 45-50 good shots per cartridge, so you used about ten per player per game, or about 1800 and spent about $540.

Today, everyone (just about) uses 4500 psi systems at a cost of roughly $200 bucks per. Then they spend about $10 per player per event for fills - or about $70 bucks (plus about $40 per player for the year on the purchase of the system) or $350 (actually less because the $40 is for an entire year of events, figure you'll use it for 1 event per month - $3.50 per, so air costs are closer to $95.00 as compared to over five hundred

Now for something completely different.

Playing 15 man ball today using the previously discussed numbers:

$540 for 12 grams ($36 per player)
$1822.50 for paint (450 rounds per player per game at $45 per case) $121 per player

or

$157 per player for air and paint

compared to:

$850.50 for paint $121 per player
$70 for air $10 per player

$131 per player - a whopping $26 dollar difference

paint was 45 a case in 96???

[Lenny]

Reb Line Scans!!!!

1991 Paintball Sports magazine cover

http://images.cjb.net/3a59d.jpg

1991 Skanline Ad (Reb Line is at the top)

http://images.cjb.net/41efe.jpg

1991 Confederate Army advertisement

http://images.cjb.net/4a9d4.jpg

...And Tom Kaye in 1991!!! (Just because) Found in APG

http://images.cjb.net/06b4c.jpg

All articles are courtesy of Dan (the owner of my local proshop) and his genorosity to let me borrow some of his old 'zines.

[Lenny]

^^By the way, I can get more if you guys want.

[hitech]

...And Tom Kaye in 1991!!! (Just because) Found in APG

http://images.cjb.net/06b4c.jpg

Hey, I remember that. I was there playing with Constant Pursuit back then.