Why are blowbacks "low end"?

[RRfireblade]

Umm - are Intimidators not essentially blow backs? I honestly don't know.

No , not remotely.


High End IMO =

High Quality Materials +
High Quality/Precision Manufacturing Methods +
Precise Quality Control +
Tight Allowable Tolerance =

High End Final Product.

[warbeak2099]

mags have some kick (mine does) i honestly knever knew what makes them high end? they deserve it though. but is it cuz thier closed bolt? blow forward? im really not sure.

Mags are open bolt. And they are high end because of what Jay just posted.

[paintballfiend]

I asked this same question over on MCB, and got some interesting answers.

I figure I'll post it here to get some more educated responses (not saying the guys on MCB are stupid).

So, why are blowback markers considered "Low end"? Is there something inherent in the blowback system that makes markers less accurate or inconsistent? Or is it just because they are cheap to make, and most are made using low quality parts?

Because pros don't use them.

[chill will]

6 or 7 years ago you had some mags and cockers selling at anywhere from 600 to 1000 dollars. At that price does that still make them high end even though there were elctros on the market then(smart parts, angel, bob long, etc). High end guns are high end because people say they are.

Now the craz is 500 mid range guns. Why, because there only somany times you can repackage a marker and then call it high end.

[punkncat]

No , not remotely.


High End IMO =

High Quality Materials +
High Quality/Precision Manufacturing Methods +
Precise Quality Control +
Tight Allowable Tolerance =

High End Final Product.

So playing devil's advocate....

If you were to take a Kingman Compact 2000, make it of the finest materials, with all tolerances within tight spec then suddenly it becomes high end because it was made well?

I sorry, you can put a bow on a turd and it still smells like crap. Design has to count for something.

[RRfireblade]

So playing devil's advocate....

If you were to take a Kingman Compact 2000, make it of the finest materials, with all tolerances within tight spec then suddenly it becomes high end because it was made well?

I sorry, you can put a bow on a turd and it still smells like crap. Design has to count for something.

Actually you'd be right about the first part. There's nothing at all wrong with the design. Blow backs have been the fastestest cycling marker design since there inception and are capable of consistancy matching any other. If built to the same precision as say a Mag with the same quality of materials and using a quality regulator , they would IMO smoke it for overall performance.

[Swampy]

mags have some kick (mine does) i honestly knever knew what makes them high end? they deserve it though. but is it cuz thier closed bolt? blow forward? im really not sure.

I don't have any on mine. What I kind noticed is depending on your barrels material. I have a Dye SS twistlock and a Smart Parts AA twistlock. I got less "kick" out of the Dye then Smart Parts.

IMO what makes them low end is how they are made and also how costly they are to make. Take your standard Sypder body besides the cosmetic milling. Bore two holes in it, throw it into a CNC machine for a cutting into shape, clean the edges its pretty much done. Well also factor in mass production now. Design something simple your production goes up because of the time it take to produce something.

Personally I don't consider there is a "low end" marker. They are needed like a Ford Escort. People need to start somewhere. If you are considering "low end" by price. From the AGD museum. When the 68 Automag came out it gave players the option to build there own marker which screams custom work. Which I think they should do with the classic again but give a ULE body on it with out a barrel or asa.

[turbo chicken]

Actually you'd be right about the first part. There's nothing at all wrong with the design. Blow backs have been the fastestest cycling marker design since there inception and are capable of consistancy matching any other. If built to the same precision as say a Mag with the same quality of materials and using a quality regulator , they would IMO smoke it for overall performance.

hmmmm ... is this why I want my original spyder back???

Lowend = spyder original

Highend = my old original spyder with LPR mod, Reg, Stock Bolt ... was consistant within +-3 with CO2

Someone said it pretty good when they said highend usually right out of the box has the upgraded you'd put on a lowend gun to get the performance up to par.




low end to me is ... price only ... if it's more than i can afford than it is highend.

[FSU_Paintball]

Why?

Because most blowbacks on the market are made to be crap. That's really it.

Also, they tend to have a sear interface, which is rarely made to last.

Also, they tend to have kick.


Please note, I'm talking about the MAJORITY of blowbacks.

[RRfireblade]

IMO what makes them low end is how they are made and also how costly they are to make. Take your standard Sypder body besides the cosmetic milling. Bore two holes in it, throw it into a CNC machine for a cutting into shape, clean the edges its pretty much done. Well also factor in mass production now. Design something simple your production goes up because of the time it take to produce something.

Pretty much exactly.

For instance , Cockers have always been considered "High End" and the only difference between a cocker and spyder (in function) is a tiny little hole drilled in the valve body.

In fact , the pneu 'system' on a Cocker , much the same issue with a Mags trigger , makes consistency highly dependant on the users ability to learn that trigger.

Consistency of the whole is the PRIMARY determining factor in accuracy over all other.

[RavishingEddie]

I was always under the impression that blowbacks were less consistent, because of the way the air flows through the Bolt and chamber. For instance I had a tippy 98 and a shutter and they shot like poopoo. Even with a good barrel the shots were very inconsistent. When compared to the design of the Nelson valve on my brothers Phantom and the Xvalve on my Emag, the designs just feels superior when I shoot them. I agree with Punkncat.

[Pneumagger]

I was always under the impression that blowbacks were less consistent, because of the way the air flows through the Bolt and chamber. For instance I had a tippy 98 and a shutter and they shot like poopoo. Even with a good barrel the shots were very inconsistent. When compared to the design of the Nelson valve on my brothers Phantom and the Xvalve on my Emag, the designs just feels superior when I shoot them. I agree with Punkncat.

I don't think a tippmann valve would qualify as a spyder type blowback.
As far as the airflow, the spyder poppet valve is almost the same as any other cocker or EP poppet marker. The mail thing that contributes to a spyder's kick is the fact that the hammer needs enough weight/momentum to open an 800 psi valve.

If you put a Low pressure chamber, AKA tornado valve, lighter more consistent springs, decent reg, and a nice delrin bolt on the spyder....

The lower pressure will help the springs be much lighter on the paint and an ACS bolt would stop chops.It will shoot like any other "high end" out there with very little kick. Personally, I want to try one of the new Spyder VS2 guns with their balanced valve and eyes. Runs on very low pressure, has eyes, firing modes, etc... I'd bet with a nice bolt and reg that thing rips.

In the end, you still have $250 electro... but it will be more reliable than most guns.

[minimag03]

I think the answer is very simple. If you would produce a blowback with quality parts, tight tolerences, etc..., it would cost a good bit of money. Let's say you could produce one of these quality blockbacks for $200. That blowback has to compete with with the Ion and a few other markers whose design simply delivers better performence. There for, lowend blowbacks are all that are produced cause I don't believe there is a market for expensive ones.

[jenarelJAM]

Because pros don't use them.

QFT, minus the " "

I think alot of what defines "high end" is how much it costs and how many people shoot them/how much they're hyped.

I mean, if they started selling the Mini at $700 instead of $450, it might not be as appealing a purchase to me, but I would suddenly consider it "High end" instead of "Middle range." Logical? no. Human nature? yes.

I believe that people assume that most products will be priced comparably, so they find the most expensive "range" they can afford, and then look between the 3-5 markers in that range for which they'd like best.

I think alot of it is also that those who have "high-end" markers like to feel superior, and if someone buys a marker for half the price, they deny that it's high-end, even if it would outperform their 09Ego, etc.(not bashing egos, for the record...)

[punkncat]

Actually you'd be right about the first part. There's nothing at all wrong with the design. Blow backs have been the fastestest cycling marker design since there inception and are capable of consistancy matching any other. If built to the same precision as say a Mag with the same quality of materials and using a quality regulator , they would IMO smoke it for overall performance.

Its not that I neccesarily disagree with what you are saying, as I said I was playing Devil's Advocate. In spite of being a well designed marker for accomplishing its task, I don't think even a well made "clone" could be considered a high end marker. I can't off the top of my head even think of a company making a high end blowback. Does Palmer make one? What is a Blazer?....anyway...
I spent a great deal of money putting "high end" parts into a Milly years ago, but it still never made the marker high end, just made it perform nearer to it.