low-pressure

[LaW]

It is regulated down to 375 or so I don't know about that 500psi but the fact still remains that "AGD uses the precise contour of the power tube tip to release air in a controlled manner behind the ball to limit peak pressures to around 60-80 psi.." AGD


So the actual amount of pressure coming out of the power tube at the ball is 60-80psi... I think thats pretty low pressure if you ask me :) The fact that the chamber is using a higher pressure I believe is insignificant when you look at the actual pressure being released.

[unseenunheard]

the 60-80 psi, yeh that is low but it does take a lil more than 375 to fill the chamber enough to shoot the ball at 280fps. i know it will go down in psi quite fast because their isn't a significant volume of air stored in the chamber upon release, .55ci i believe.

[LaW]

I want to hear an answer from magic55 because his situation is completely hopper related and his argument then is crap, I want to hear him rework it

[magic55]

the hopper thing was just an example. i used that cause thats how most people chop. this thread is originally about lowering the pressure of a mag and i think he is meaning so it doesn't chop. like i said my matrix bolt opperates at about 80psi and you can stick your finger down into the feed neck and in front of the bolt and the bold will just bounce off of your finger, its the same when a ball is not fed all the way. because its lowpressure it doesn't chop it. if i took off the trinity reg i have on it and stuck my finger down in would probably hurt a bit and maybe cut my finger. once for a little experiment when i first got my gun i stuck a shrimp down in front of the bolt and fired about ten shots on it and it barely even left a mark. i know thats not about a mag but what i'm trying to say is that if a mag opperated that low or lower you wouldn't have problems with chopping. someone said something about the bolt not going all the way forward.... i have not idea what they're talking about cause it does. basically i'm saying that the lowpressure prevents my matrix from chopping as opposed to my mag which just rips right through the ball.

[LaW]

Chopping is a hopper issue. Who cares about chopping, That isn't even the point, we are talking about breaking paint in the breech......

[Smokee_2_7]

However, in the event that somthing goes wrong with the feed system (it happens relativly often. . .) its good to know that, IF a ball is only half way in the breach (whether it be from user error, or hopper/feeding issues) that the gun's bolt Wont slice through the ball. This is the way my cocker was. That was one of my favoritew things about that gun. I shortstroked the crap out of it when i first got it, but i never chopped a ball. It just simply jammed, leaving the back block about halfway. Trust me, giving a little tug on the backblock to let the ball fall in is a WHOLE lot faster and eaiser than having to squeege and clean a ton when a chop occurs.

SO, in that aspect, I think that the chopping issue is very valid. TRUE, if everything is set up right it's not an issue, but- - its also true that sometimes things go wrong, and misfeeds happen. Its kinda nice to have that redundancy to maintain a clean operation of the gun.



just my 2 cents.

Carl

[hitech]

I hope this helps clear up things.

Chopping
The bolt in an automag moves forward using the pressure in the chamber (approx. 400 psi, give or take). That is enough pressure to slice a paintball in half. If that pressure were lower, the bolt would move slower, giving the paintball more of a chance to be knocked out of the way (either back up into the feed tube, or into the breech) and not get chopped. If the pressure were low enough the bolt could stop (jam) and not break the paintball.

*Added on edit* If the pressure (that moves the bolt forward) where lower it would also have a greater change of further slowing the bolt when pinching a paintball, thus giving the paintball even more time to get out of the way.

Acceleration/Impact Breaks - Chambering
The faster the bolt moves forward the faster the paintball is accelerated. The faster the acceleration the more likely the paintball will break from this acceleration. If the paintball is not in contact with the bold when the marker is fired it gains momentum before impacting the paintball. The faster the bolt moves, the higher this impact will be and the greater the chance of breaking the paintball.

Acceleration Breaks - Shooting
The peak pressure that fires the paintball is approx. 60 psi. If this pressure were high enough the paintball would accelerate too fast and would break. This pressure (60 psi in the automag) is fairly low and shouldn't accelerate the paintball fast enough to break it, IMO (I'm never humble).


The automag cycles the bolt fast. It needs to in order to allow a high ROF. The faster it cycles, the longer the bolt is open and the longer a paintball has to drop into position to be chambered correctly.

Hope this helps.

[magic55]

we are talking about breaking paint in the breech......

No kidding thats what i'm saying and you aren't making any sense. plain and simply if the mag had a lower pressure like a matrix or freeflow cocker or something it wouldn't break paint in the breech. take your mag and see if you can stick your finger in the breech and fire the bolt against it several times without getting hurt... its not gonna happen cause the bolt is at to high of a pressure compared to the other two guns i listed. you really aren't making sense you've said two completely opposite things.

Chopping is a hopper issue. Who cares about chopping, That isn't even the point, we are talking about breaking paint in the breech......

is it just me or is chopping when a ball breaks in the breech....

[hitech]

Originally posted by magic55
is it just me or is chopping when a ball breaks in the breech....

What "most" people mean by chopping is the bolt cutting/smashing the paintball against the edge of the feed tube. If the paintball doesn't hit against the feed tube, then "most" people would not call it a chop. At least, I assume it's most. :)

[magic55]

whatever people think of chopping as, all i'm saying is that lowpressure guns are better on paint than higher pressure guns. i never have chops with my matrix. i always had chops with my mag. but for whatever reason i had chops if it was low enough pressure it wouldn't happen.
some people get chops from shortstroking a mag... a cocker can also be shortstroked but the freeflow for example has low enough pressure where it will not chop.

[HyperSnyper]

I posted here before, wonder why it didnt go through...

Oh well...

The operating pressure of the Mag is 350-450 psi. I know because I have my Reg gutted with a Stabilizer bottomline regulating my entire system. It is at about 375 psi at 285 fps. Just because its 375 psi, doesnt mean 375 psi is hitting the ball. 375 psi is used to force the bolt forward, when the sear is released. This force is reduced progressively as the bolt spring's tension gives an opposing force. In addition, the bolt is moving forward, opeing up more volume for the gas, this will also help lower the forward force of the bolt. I dont know the exact figures, but Im sure these factors must be able to drop the force in the bolt significantly. With the increase volume comes lower pressure being exposed to the ball.

I knew the pressure was dropped, I even heard it was dropped in half, but I never knew it was only 60 psi hitting the ball. OMG!

Aaron at AKALMP told me over the phone long ago that he had a 300 psi operating Mag. He said he had the earlier classic valve where the powertube actually unscrews, then he could increase the volume of the Air chamber. Told me he could get it down to a 250 psi operating pressure, but didnt want to.
Must shootdown like a Bit*h

-Hyper

[hitech]

Originally posted by magic55
all i'm saying is that lowpressure guns are better on paint than higher pressure guns...

Yes, that is true. Did you read my explaination above? What did you think? Did it make sense?

[HyperSnyper]

As for the chopping issue, in theory the Superbolt takes care of that.

By reducing the weight of the bolt, the bolt can move forward and backward faster as opposed to a heavier stainless one. Since the lightened bolt will cycle faster, then there will be more "bolt open" time for the ball to drop.

I did have a thread reguarding the Superbolts increased acceleratin and its potential advers effectse on the ball, but it ended up insignificant, especially since they are being shipped with foamies standard now.

-Hyper

[magic55]

this thread was about lowering the pressure of a mag so it woudn't chop (whatever chopping is to people). now it seems that its focusing on how the mag is lowpressure at about 60psi. if thats the case than we wouldn't be chopping. maybe something else on a mag is opperating at that but it isn't the bolt. if the bolt moved with 60psi it wouldn't chop... plain and simple, but it doesn't the bolt has much more force behind it and thats why it chops.

The bolt in an automag moves forward using the pressure in the chamber (approx. 400 psi, give or take). That is enough pressure to slice a paintball in half. If that pressure were lower, the bolt would move slower, giving the paintball more of a chance to be knocked out of the way

the pressure that moves the bolt forward on my gun is around 80psi give or take and it doesn't move slow at all. it will cycle close to 17bps. its not cause of the bolt moving slower its because there isn't alot of force (pressure) behind the bolt to shove it through the ball and cause a chop.

[Muzikman]

Originally posted by magic55

No kidding thats what i'm saying and you aren't making any sense. plain and simply if the mag had a lower pressure like a matrix or freeflow cocker or something it wouldn't break paint in the breech. take your mag and see if you can stick your finger in the breech and fire the bolt against it several times without getting hurt... its not gonna happen cause the bolt is at to high of a pressure compared to the other two guns i listed. you really aren't making sense you've said two completely opposite things.



is it just me or is chopping when a ball breaks in the breech....

Chopping is when the ball is cought between the feed tube and the bolt. Yes, a LP cocker will not chop a ball because it is a closed bolt gun, the bolt moves forward with less preassure which chambers the ball. The ball is then fired on the next trigger pull by a burst of air. This less preassure is even lower than 60psi. It does not take alot of preassure to operate a ram. The mag is a blow forward open bolt gun. The bolt is being moved by the same air that the ball is being projected with. You would NEVER beable to get any blow forward gun to run at a low enough preassure to just pinch a ball.

Now...if a cocker uses 80PSI to project the ball and a Mag uses 80PSI to project a ball, whats the difference. Most people do not break paint in the breech, they break paint in the feed tube (chopping) or down the barrel (bad paint to barrel match).

I hope makes sense since I wrote it pretty quick and do not have time to read over it.