low-pressure

[magic55]

he was asking if there is a way to get it so it doesn't chop though. we all got a little off track

[laysomepaint]

the reason it chops is because the bolt has a very high pressure behind it. i have a proposal to make the mag easier on paint. Make the mag pneumatic. Add a ram, LPR, and a 4way(or maybe solenoid valve in the case of the e-mag) and recock the bolt using this. it will take a bit of redesigning, but i know it can be done. pbjosh on here and pbnation did it and pretty much based a gun that hes designing on it(with an original valve of course). Of course that adds timing, but if done right, you could time it to be either open or closed bolt.

one problem i see with it is that the barrel pressure will be raised, because the piston in the bolt will probably have to be completely removed, but just move it to the tip of the power tube. Another added bonus is the superbolt wont wear as fast because there is no spring.

also, if it uses cocker pneumatics(at least the LPR and maybe ram) then theres a huge aftermarket added.

just some thoughts.

[LaW]

And the ability for higher rates of fire goes down as well :) with more moving parts the more complicated and bulky it will get, it's like turning it into a cocker :) we dont' need that... we have our own elves....

[magic55]

heres a simple solution... get a matrix. it is very fast and low pressure so it won't chop. if you get that you won't have anymore problems except for sucking down air.

[Muzikman]

Punisher made a Mag/Cocker hybrid. It is basicly what you just talked about. Why goes through all that...just buy a cocker.
I think chopping is a thing of the past pretty much with the WarpFeed, Halo and now ACE with the E-Mag Extremes.

[laysomepaint]

but angels, bushmasters, and impulses all have some sort of pneumatic system and their not slow. In fact, theyre among the fastest. The excalibur is closed bolt AND uses a ram to fire and a ram to recock, and does 13bps (also, supposively not hard to do it). Even electro cockers can reach 10-12. Ok...so theyre all electronic, but still...im sure there is a mechanical way to use a ram, and sill hit 10+ bps on an automag...think about what part of the trigger is controlling the ram. The botttom of the trigger moves farther because it is a swing trigger.

Just some more thoughts.

[oldguy]

bettyjg

I have played paintball for about six years. When I owned a tippman 68 carbine, rated at three rounds a second max, I never chopped a ball. When I bought my classic mag, it had a much faster rate of fire, a better trigger pull, and it chopped alot of paint. However, it never broke a ball that was fully loaded in the breach. Which leads me to believe that the chopping issue is not related to high pressure hitting the face of the ball or the bolt for that matter. My chopping was always a feeding problem. The bolt never broke a ball, it always cut them.

When I got the new parabolic feed plug and up graded to a retrovalve my chopping issue disappeared. All guns have some sort of compromize in their design. No design is perfect including the Mags. The trade-off with the Mag is its blow forward bolt design. The advantages are a high rate of fire, consistant velocity, and a very reliable marker. The downside is you are more likely to chop balls if they don't load fully into the breach. Does this mean that it is a bad design? No, just a weakness in it.

I bet even Tom Kaye recognizes the weaknesses, but decided the advantages out weigh it. He is always tying to minimize or eliminate the problem with such items as new feed plug designs, long nose bolt, super bolt, and now an antichopping eye.

I think the major key is the feeding system. Why did my tippman work without ever chopping. Well I think so because it fired so slow the ball always had time to fully feed into the breech. I bet their Model 98 chops more than the prolite. I know my son's does. So as long as we pursue the highest rate of fire possible we will always have to contend with chopped balls.

[jurassic]

Minimag with super bolt ( sanded and a cutdown foamie installed by me) and Retro valve and a Hyperframe and Turbo Revy and a Dye aluminum .687 bore shooting nothing but RP Flash. Ball counter at over 5000 ( admittedly not all shots were with paint) not one chop! Zero barrel breaks! Also the paint breaks on the first ball drop using TK paint test method. Very brittle paint! The hyper frame is set for 13 BPS Semi. Since I've brought the Mag back to life, I lube the gun up with plenty of AKA Extreme lube and use Shocker lube on the on/off pin and o-rings before every day of play or just plinking in the backyard.
But the only paintgun I have owned or shot for any length of time that never and I mean never chopped paint was the Air Power Vector! The bolt will stop on a misfed ball, push the modded saftey button the the bolt cycles back ball falls in chamber continue to shoot. No Paint mess!! Sometimes a shake of the gun would be needed to have pinched ball drop in the chamber. I still own this well made ugly gun s/n 804.