Why?

[CKY_Alliance]

Why does it seem that nearly everyone on AO(except a few) think that it takes no skill to shoot people with a ramping gun?

Honestly,after reading a few post just now..its seems like a few of you believe that if you ramp you automatically use the "spray and pray" technique...and that snap shooting automatically happens magically because the gun is ramping...

[punkncat]

Why does it seem that nearly everyone on AO(except a few) think that it takes no skill to shoot people with a ramping gun?

Honestly,after reading a few post just now..its seems like a few of you believe that if you ramp you automatically use the "spray and pray" technique...and that snap shooting automatically happens magically because the gun is ramping...

I don't agree with that mentality, but I will say that ramping has changed the face of the game in such a way that (paint)budget more than skill determines outcomes of games....and has changed the learning curve irrepairably.

[MaD_SaM]

[mr.mag218]

Why does it seem that nearly everyone on AO(except a few) think that it takes no skill to shoot people with a ramping gun?

Honestly,after reading a few post just now..its seems like a few of you believe that if you ramp you automatically use the "spray and pray" technique...and that snap shooting automatically happens magically because the gun is ramping...

i don't think it automatically makes you spray and pray. however i think that ramping or auto modes take the timing out of a shot. see you just pop out of the bunker and unload of few hoppers of paint until the person finally pops out and gets hit 15 times (exaggerated). pumps bring the firefight back...shoot go back in your bunker wait, see the person, shoot. the person who times their shot right gets the kill. (or just has a lucky pull of the trigger)....i don't post much in these threads so please don't flame. i'll just crawl back into my hole now

[CKY_Alliance]

I don't agree with that mentality, but I will say that ramping has changed the face of the game in such a way that (paint)budget more than skill determines outcomes of games....and has changed the learning curve irrepairably.

So you have noticed that mentality as well? Just wanna make sure im not the only one.

[Lohman446]

I don't agree with that mentality, but I will say that ramping has changed the face of the game in such a way that (paint)budget more than skill determines outcomes of games....and has changed the learning curve irrepairably.

Really?

I filled in at a tournament for an old team. I shot 1/2 a case of paint over the entire tournament using a ramping marker. One of the other players on the team probably averaged 1/2 case of paint a game.

Ask those there who they would have preferred on there team? Now understand I was having a reasonably "on" day and things were going well.

[CKY_Alliance]

Really?

I filled in at a tournament for an old team. I shot 1/2 a case of paint over the entire tournament using a ramping marker. One of the other players on the team probably averaged 1/2 case of paint a game.

Ask those there who they would have preferred on there team? Now understand I was having a reasonably "on" day and things were going well.

My whole team(myself included) will use about 3/4 to a full case playing a tournamnet in PSP...back players included..

In response to Mr.Mag, when snapping with ramping you generally, atleast I, rarley am shooting long enough to activate ramping and if i do, by time I check in and snap back out it has turned off...majority of the time..of course i am talking about PSP ramping..

[mag_lover05]

Welcome to the town of One Week Ban. Curse, or circumvent the filters again, and you are gone permanent.

Army

[geekwarrior]

so you're saying the odds of hitting someone don't increase if I shoot 15 instead of 8?

Im not saying it takes the skill out, but it def has changed the game.

[buzzboy]

(mind I don't ramp but I do add shots[cough bounce cough]but that's limited to 13 by my revy)
I don't think there is anything wrong with ramping. Mainly I play tourney's that are strict semi only, some capped some uncapped. But I really don't think ramping does anything special. My team's backmen both ramp and one of them shoots through crazy paint and he really doesn't get that many more outs that I do shooting 13 bouncing.

Funny thing is that on my team some members have their ramping set to 15 on third pull at like 2 bps and they actually rag on me for the ramp issue bouncing to 13 max. Personally I think they're just jealous though because I'm just so hot.

Over all I have not played a game that ramping made a difference at all. If somebody is ramping they could be doing just as good without it.




(god....all this talk of it makes me wanna buy a pump)

[p8ntbal4me]

Most of the tourney series now set small time limits and make the games more intense time wise to win in a shorter span to gain more points. Note that you used to see NPPL players using larger harnesses and shooting alot more paint than todays PSP players that (depending on their role on the team and field possition) will cary maybe 3 tubes and a hopper full of paint.

I do agree with you when you say that it does take skill to play tourney and it is not a thing you just come out of the woods one day and start owing other teams at. It takes time and a certain degree of skill developement to get there.

I do NOT agree with the whole ramping thing. I like the idea of the max ROF capped in modes such as ramping because I think in many ways,.. it damages the image of plaintball to Non-Paintball playing people.

I like ramping only for one reason, it makes the teams that play with skill and great communication show at the end of an event more so,.. because they worked on the same level as everyone else in respect to their markers,.. but because THEY were the better team,.. they won.

I would like to see a tourney series honor un-capped firing rates for those players that believe they can shoot faster in a manual mode over a ramping mode. Mixing the 2 modes I think would make alot of the "crying" go away about Mags, bounce, and what is legal and not legal. Look at it this way,.... if things were black and white, apples to oranges,.... think about the next statement here: The difference in a player pulling the trigger to achive a manual BPS of 6 and then being blessed with an extra 9BPS they didnt actually pull vice a player that has a manual BPS of 13 and gets an swtich bounce or "reactive push" to give them an extra 9BPS? Think about that for a minute and forget the way the rules and stuff are,... just with that information and nothing else,... whats the difference in how they get the extra BPS?

The ramping is capped? Well thats not what information I gave you,.. but lets take a look at the same information and install a ROF cap at,.. say 40BPS.

Now the your gun is in a ramping mode thats capped at 40BPS. Your gun has no bounce what so ever. Your ramping starts at say, 9BPS and goes up to your max BPS set to 40. Now just so we are clear, your getting 31BPS more you are NOT pulling as long as you mantain 9BPS on your own. And for just name sake,.. lets call your gun an EGO (this is for name,.. nothing more!)

Now the gun Im using is in manual mode, meaning STRAIGHT SEMI. This means that there is NOTHING in the modes programming that will give me a mixed number of shot buffer. (an example would be that Im shooting 1.89BPS and the computer is rounding every shot up to the next whole number and telling the solenoid to honor 2BPS not 1.89BPS) So with that being said,.. if I pull 1.89BPS,.. im getting 1BPS. My gun has bounce or a "reactive push" to my trigger. Meaning that I use my guns mechanics to achive a high rate of fire.
Lets call my gun an X-Valve R/T with a electronic grip frame.

So we stand side by side and you just start fanning your trigger. Your gun starts ripping over a BPS tracker (for a way to measure the BPS,.. work with me here!) and your hopper is now empty. The machine says your max ROF was 29BPS on your EGO.

I start to fan my trigger over the BPS tracker and my hopper is now empty. The machine says my max ROF was 37BPS.

I GUARRENTY,.. no better said, Ill put my E-Mag up against this statement, that you, because your shooting an EGO will cry that my Mag is "cheating, or illegal" becuase it can cycle faster and reach its peak ROF built on its mechanics and your EGO can not.

Now you see why most of us think its not a thing that promotes skill. Why ramp, why not just through the guns into full auto and use that? This is the core reason why people on the AO and Mag users in general get very (for a lack of a better word) "mad" when some electronic toting tourney player talks about their EGO, Shocker, ION, etc. as being the FASTEST GUN EVA,... then they call Mags not legal because they are just flat out FASTER than anything in production to date (and you can quote the AO on that one!!!)

You give me an Xvalved mag with a Qloader, shooting straight manual trigger NO ELECTRONICS AT ALL. Give another player an EGO with any loader they want, eyes or no eyes, uncapped ramping, full auto, whatever they want to use. Just flat max the gun out. Now put him at the end of my paint stream and I GUARRENTY he will complain because my gun is "bouncing" and its not legal. Even though hes using full auto or uncapped ramping, hes STILL going to complain. Why? Because the mag was faster than his EGO. Dont deny it,.. you all know what Im talking about. I fell victom to this in the CFOA in 2001. I was bull (bad word here)! Because my R/T burned 2 guys of the break and they get waxed. Even with Angels running Gabriel boards in turbo,... still they complained.

This is why ramping and fire modes that people (other than mag users) think makes their guns better and faster are a topic of ill-response here.

You know what would happen if they allowed "bouncing mags" in the PSP? Couple things:

First,... the players guns that can not reach a mags max ROF would boycot the tourney series, and most likely their sponsors would file complaints labling mags as "un-safe".

Second,... players would FLOOD to AGD to grab mags (w00t w00t ) because that (just like the EGO is now) would be the new standard for speedy guns in a tourney.

Third,... a stock gun would be maxed out directly from the factory. What do you think companies like Virtue, Taedo, KM2, TAG, APE, Scenario Dreams, etc. would think about their electronic boards now longer being needed in the market for the top dog gun??? You think they would be okay with that?? Again,... more complaints will be filed with the tourney series saying that the Mags are "un-safe".

Fourth,.... SMART PARTS. Think long and hard,..... no more speedy electronic guns. A manual gun can replace that now. You think Smart Parts has ANY PATENT GROUND to stand on with AGD?? Nope. Not if they are all manual guns. No more royalties. Once more,.. another complaint filed saying mags are "un-safe".

I know,... I ranted alot. But remember to think on an ETHICAL term when you read this and comment. If apples were apples, there was no middle,... your either on this side or that side. (Anyone that has taken an Ethics College Course will know what Im talking about)

Do you think that ramping is fair now?? I dont. I think its a cheap way out.

Thats all!!

PS: I own 4 mags,... but I also own 3 Shockers, 3 Cockers, a pump, etc. So I am NOT mag bias! I do shoot my other guns every year!

[RogueFactor]

Why does it seem that nearly everyone on AO(except a few) think that it takes no skill to shoot people with a ramping gun?

Because everyone on AO(except a few) know the truth.

...It takes no skill to ramp. Its a triple tap. 3 pulls. The rest is all computer. Since when did 3 trigger pulls qualify as having skill?

...It takes little skill to point a ramping marker. So little skill, that everyone can point. I didnt know that pointing was a really hard skill to master?

Honestly,after reading a few post just now..its seems like a few of you believe that if you ramp you automatically use the "spray and pray" technique...and that snap shooting automatically happens magically because the gun is ramping...

In a shooting sport, the skill of shooting is a requisite skill. Having to pull the trigger, for every pull, requires more skill than not. Which is true whether its a bouncing mag or a ramping electro.

It takes less skill to:

1) Shoot a ramping electro than it does a semi-electro.
2) Shoot a semi-electro than it does a semi-mechanical.
3) Shoot a semi-mechanical than it does to shoot an Auto-Trigger pump.
4) Shoot an Auto-Trigger pump than a non-AT pump.

[p8ntbal4me]

It takes less skill to:

1) Shoot a ramping electro than it does a semi-electro.
2) Shoot a semi-electro than it does a semi-mechanical.
3) Shoot a semi-mechanical than it does to shoot an Auto-Trigger pump.
4) Shoot an Auto-Trigger pump than a non-AT pump.

Dude,.. whats your address? Because Im baking you a cake so you can have something sweet to go with the truth. I totally didnt think beyond a semi-auto with my post.
Your post right after mine is soooooooooooo sweet!!! (stroking the Sniper II w/o CCM autotrigger kit)

[CKY_Alliance]

Most of the tourney series now set small time limits and make the games more intense time wise to win in a shorter span to gain more points. Note that you used to see NPPL players using larger harnesses and shooting alot more paint than todays PSP players that (depending on their role on the team and field possition) will cary maybe 3 tubes and a hopper full of paint.
where were you going with this?
I do agree with you when you say that it does take skill to play tourney and it is not a thing you just come out of the woods one day and start owing other teams at. It takes time and a certain degree of skill developement to get there.


I do NOT agree with the whole ramping thing. I like the idea of the max ROF capped in modes such as ramping because I think in many ways,.. it damages the image of plaintball to Non-Paintball playing people.
How does it damage the image? Most "outsiders" see/hear ramping and it amazes them, for some new players it scares them,but they have already chosen to play so they are not so much outsiders..

I like ramping only for one reason, it makes the teams that play with skill and great communication show at the end of an event more so,.. because they worked on the same level as everyone else in respect to their markers,.. but because THEY were the better team,.. they won.
Interesting, most people would argue the opposite,that it makes the bad players on a level playing field with the good players,atleast for trigger speed.

I would like to see a tourney series honor un-capped firing rates for those players that believe they can shoot faster in a manual mode over a ramping mode. Mixing the 2 modes I think would make alot of the "crying" go away about Mags, bounce, and what is legal and not legal. Look at it this way,.... if things were black and white, apples to oranges,.... think about the next statement here: The difference in a player pulling the trigger to achive a manual BPS of 6 and then being blessed with an extra 9BPS they didnt actually pull vice a player that has a manual BPS of 13 and gets an swtich bounce or "reactive push" to give them an extra 9BPS? Think about that for a minute and forget the way the rules and stuff are,... just with that information and nothing else,... whats the difference in how they get the extra BPS?

The ramping is capped? Well thats not what information I gave you,.. but lets take a look at the same information and install a ROF cap at,.. say 40BPS.

ummm...ok..the player not ramping is shooting faster..what's your point because I have somehow missed it.

Now the your gun is in a ramping mode thats capped at 40BPS. Your gun has no bounce what so ever. Your ramping starts at say, 9BPS and goes up to your max BPS set to 40. Now just so we are clear, your getting 31BPS more you are NOT pulling as long as you mantain 9BPS on your own. And for just name sake,.. lets call your gun an EGO (this is for name,.. nothing more!)

Now the gun Im using is in manual mode, meaning STRAIGHT SEMI. This means that there is NOTHING in the modes programming that will give me a mixed number of shot buffer. (an example would be that Im shooting 1.89BPS and the computer is rounding every shot up to the next whole number and telling the solenoid to honor 2BPS not 1.89BPS) So with that being said,.. if I pull 1.89BPS,.. im getting 1BPS. My gun has bounce or a "reactive push" to my trigger. Meaning that I use my guns mechanics to achive a high rate of fire.
Lets call my gun an X-Valve R/T with a electronic grip frame.

So we stand side by side and you just start fanning your trigger. Your gun starts ripping over a BPS tracker (for a way to measure the BPS,.. work with me here!) and your hopper is now empty. The machine says your max ROF was 29BPS on your EGO.

I start to fan my trigger over the BPS tracker and my hopper is now empty. The machine says my max ROF was 37BPS.

I GUARRENTY,.. no better said, Ill put my E-Mag up against this statement, that you, because your shooting an EGO will cry that my Mag is "cheating, or illegal" becuase it can cycle faster and reach its peak ROF built on its mechanics and your EGO can not.
Are you aware that all guns have mechanics and are capable of mecanical bounce..there for you I would not get mad because your "mechanical" gun with a electronic frame is faster then my "Ego"...Your not posting to answer my question your posting to try and make Mags out to be the Ultimate gun..which no one cares..go post in one of the other 800 "mags are so awsome" threads..which if thats your opinion then so be it.

Now you see why most of us think its not a thing that promotes skill. Why ramp, why not just through the guns into full auto and use that? This is the core reason why people on the AO and Mag users in general get very (for a lack of a better word) "mad" when some electronic toting tourney player talks about their EGO, Shocker, ION, etc. as being the FASTEST GUN EVA,... then they call Mags not legal because they are just flat out FASTER than anything in production to date (and you can quote the AO on that one!!!)

Are they? Wait what does it matter..the question wasn't whats the fastest gun?


You give me an Xvalved mag with a Qloader, shooting straight manual trigger NO ELECTRONICS AT ALL. Give another player an EGO with any loader they want, eyes or no eyes, uncapped ramping, full auto, whatever they want to use. Just flat max the gun out. Now put him at the end of my paint stream and I GUARRENTY he will complain because my gun is "bouncing" and its not legal. Even though hes using full auto or uncapped ramping, hes STILL going to complain. Why? Because the mag was faster than his EGO. Dont deny it,.. you all know what Im talking about. I fell victom to this in the CFOA in 2001. I was bull (bad word here)! Because my R/T burned 2 guys of the break and they get waxed. Even with Angels running Gabriel boards in turbo,... still they complained.
Umm ok...I think if uncapped ramping or full auto is allowed..i don't think they are going to care what your Mech mag is doing..
This is why ramping and fire modes that people (other than mag users) think makes their guns better and faster are a topic of ill-response here.

You know what would happen if they allowed "bouncing mags" in the PSP? Couple things:

First,... the players guns that can not reach a mags max ROF would boycot the tourney series, and most likely their sponsors would file complaints labling mags as "un-safe".
Umm they can't? why wouldn't they boycott it...they are capping the E-guns at 15 because it is intintional adding of shots, oh wait cranking up your air input is the same thing..

Second,... players would FLOOD to AGD to grab mags (w00t w00t ) because that (just like the EGO is now) would be the new standard for speedy guns in a tourney.

Third,... a stock gun would be maxed out directly from the factory. What do you think companies like Virtue, Taedo, KM2, TAG, APE, Scenario Dreams, etc. would think about their electronic boards now longer being needed in the market for the top dog gun??? You think they would be okay with that?? Again,... more complaints will be filed with the tourney series saying that the Mags are "un-safe".

Well they would be "un-safe" seeing how they are not controlled like the capped ramping guns.

Fourth,.... SMART PARTS. Think long and hard,..... no more speedy electronic guns. A manual gun can replace that now. You think Smart Parts has ANY PATENT GROUND to stand on with AGD?? Nope. Not if they are all manual guns. No more royalties. Once more,.. another complaint filed saying mags are "un-safe".

See above, and my goodness you come up with the most random..off topic ****

I know,... I ranted alot. But remember to think on an ETHICAL term when you read this and comment. If apples were apples, there was no middle,... your either on this side or that side. (Anyone that has taken an Ethics College Course will know what Im talking about)

Do you think that ramping is fair now?? I dont. I think its a cheap way out.
Ramping is the cheap way out,but bounce is just fine? Huh...explain that to me please, oh wait numerous mag owners have tried justifying that numerous times.

Thats all!!

PS: I own 4 mags,... but I also own 3 Shockers, 3 Cockers, a pump, etc. So I am NOT mag bias! I do shoot my other guns every year!

Wow...

[RogueFactor]

It takes less skill to:

1) Shoot a ramping electro than it does a semi-electro.
2) Shoot a semi-electro than it does a semi-mechanical.
3) Shoot a semi-mechanical than it does to shoot an Auto-Trigger pump.
4) Shoot an Auto-Trigger pump than a non-AT pump.

Dude,.. whats your address? Because Im baking you a cake so you can have something sweet to go with the truth. I totally didnt think beyond a semi-auto with my post.
Your post right after mine is soooooooooooo sweet!!! (stroking the Sniper II w/o CCM autotrigger kit)

Dont forget. Of the 4 examples listed ... ramping is the only one that doesnt require skill. As long as there are 3 pulls, its all marker. A computer doesnt have "skill".