What exactly happened between smar parts and AGD?

[Stingrayman42]

I have heard rumors of lawsuits and things that shut down the production of the X-mag. Are any of these actually true, if not what actually happened? I have been out of the game for some time and am just curious as to what is going on.

Thanks.

[tech-chan]

AGD RULES AND SMART PARTS ARE IDIOTS!!!

Sorry, maybe Lohmann or someone can explain it, I'm just here for the Mag party.

[neppo1345]

Long story short:

Smart Parts patented electronic paintball guns.

Smart parts started sending cease and desist letters to companys producing said guns.

AGD figured they were next so they took a step back and looked to see if it was worth it.

They realized that it wasn't, so they halted production.

To the best of my knowledge SP never actually send AGD a formal C&D.

[robnix]

[Don Carnage]

OK, I had been wondering.

Can't you still buy an X-mag from AGD Europe? Euro X-Mag

How would that be immune to Spart Parts lawyers?

[MANN]

OK, I had been wondering.

Can't you still buy an X-mag from AGD Europe? Euro X-Mag

How would that be immune to Spart Parts lawyers?

nope.

[originalspyderxtra]

i dont believe that sp has an internation patent. rather just a US patent. anyhting manufactured oversees is immune. but there is some catch with importing it.

[Railgun]

Smart parts "invented" electric guns? THAT'S SILLY! You can't "invent" using electricity with something like that. Just a given valve or other new trick that is unique and new in some way that happens to use electric power. And you certainly can't patent using a solenoid to do anything. Those have been around as long as electric motors.

Guns of all sorts have been electrically fired in one form or another for decades! I wonder if they sent a cease and desist to GE for making electrically fired miniguns....

[emumikey]

Smart parts "invented" electric guns? THAT'S SILLY! You can't "invent" using electricity with something like that. Just a given valve or other new trick that is unique and new in some way that happens to use electric power. And you certainly can't patent using a solenoid to do anything. Those have been around as long as electric motors.

Guns of all sorts have been electrically fired in one form or another for decades! I wonder if they sent a cease and desist to GE for making electrically fired miniguns....

wrong. you can patent the execution or implementation of an existing technology.

[aqua_scummm]

wrong. you can patent the execution or implementation of an existing technology.

Please don't make generalizations when you are not properly educated on the subject.

He wasn't saying they didn't do what they did, he was saying they shouldn't have been able to.

[Beemer]

When I saw this thread it had eighteen posts. Next one trys to jack it wont be happy. Enough said.

Now if you want to put up some links for him to read That would be Helpfull. Otherwise just skip the thread and dont post.

Back OT

He wasn't saying they didn't do what they did, he was saying they shouldn't have been able to.

Right. Thats the million dollar question. How the heck did they get away with something that broad. I bet large they didnt have to go thru any appeals. How many different examiners looked at their apps or was it just one that kept giving them the expansion. Hmm

[Railgun]

And that's the thing. It's an incredably broad interpretation.

I know that electrically operated solenoid valves have been used in many, many other pneumatic and hydraulic applications. So the only thing I can see is that SP may have gotten away with the idea of applying them to paintball markers? But since electrically controlled pneumatic valves are generally so common for many applications I would think they are in a rather shakey situation. But then a lot of the marker companies are probably not multi million dollar Fortune 500 outfits. And even the possibility of legal action costs could well scare them into paying SP the extortion money that they seem to be after.

I suppose I could see SP's case if they came up with the first single spool electro pneumatic system (as in the Shocker?) and they were going after other single spool electro pneumatic makers. If that's the case then I suppose they have a valid case. But if they are just going after ANY of the electro pneumatic makers then that sure seems over the top.

[Chaos_Theory!]

What they patented was pretty specific but it effected a very broad range of things. They pretty much took a very basic thing that was needed for a lot of electro pnuematic markers and patented it which hurt a lot of companies in one way or another.

[Lord_Whoopass]

And that's the thing. It's an incredably broad interpretation.

I know that electrically operated solenoid valves have been used in many, many other pneumatic and hydraulic applications. So the only thing I can see is that SP may have gotten away with the idea of applying them to paintball markers? But since electrically controlled pneumatic valves are generally so common for many applications I would think they are in a rather shakey situation. But then a lot of the marker companies are probably not multi million dollar Fortune 500 outfits. And even the possibility of legal action costs could well scare them into paying SP the extortion money that they seem to be after.

I suppose I could see SP's case if they came up with the first single spool electro pneumatic system (as in the Shocker?) and they were going after other single spool electro pneumatic makers. If that's the case then I suppose they have a valid case. But if they are just going after ANY of the electro pneumatic makers then that sure seems over the top.

SP patented a certain port or operation (forget which), that is used on all Electropneumatic markers...

Funny part is Dye owns the patent for spool valve (bolt kits)... SP and dye got into a little legal action too...

Now if TK would have patented HPA applications on Paintball markers, he could have easily got many royalties from the market.... However some people truely care about the industry and dont try to drive others out of business or make money from them... which basically hurts the industry as a whole...

[aqua_scummm]

SP patented a certain port or operation (forget which), that is used on all Electropneumatic markers...

Funny part is Dye owns the patent for spool valve (bolt kits)... SP and dye got into a little legal action too...

Now if TK would have patented HPA applications on Paintball markers, he could have easily got many royalties from the market.... However some people truely care about the industry and dont try to drive others out of business or make money from them... which basically hurts the industry as a whole...

The pin valve was invented by Tippmann, they would have made a billion dollars.

Same can be said for nelson valvetrains, sheridan valvetrains, etc