Is this crazy?

[RogueFactor]

The eye system on the X-mag in the breech was not great.

See, I thought we were talking about the ACE...

In regards to your supply and demand comment, we were talking about the X-mag.

[Lohman446]

See, I thought we were talking about the ACE...

So if there was a demand for anti-chop eyes they would be available on mags?

[WenULiVeUdiE]

Again, I'll say it, Mags are on par with modern spooler electro guns (efficiency wise), so whats the big deal? You want a highly efficent gun? Buy a Viking, I get 5 pods on 2000psi from a 45/45 tank. But its not a Mag is it? None of the current Uber guns are all that efficent anymore, it isnt a selling point now.

So my bottomline is this. WHY should AGD do all these things, when they are perfectly happy with the situation as it stands? Just to make other people happy and make the same amount of money, or less?

Last time I checked, no modern spooler gets 1200 shots off a full 88/4500. Many modern spoolers can get 700 off a 45...

Guns have been getting more and more efficient, they just have not been advertised as such. Not a selling point, but it has been getting better.

If they're happy with their user base, then they have no reason to expand their product line. I simple believe that the one area they failed in was efficiency and if they were to "get back into the game" (so to speak), they would have to improve that.

[RogueFactor]

So if there was a demand for anti-chop eyes they would be available on mags?

If there was demand for ACE boards, theyd be available.

[rkjunior303]

how about redesigning the valve completely? sure, sticking to your guns of a design that's going on 10-15 years old is nice and all but i'm sorry you gain new customers by being innovative.

the mag valve recharges the fastest - so what? how is that practical with the current "vision" of AGD? mechanically, you can't use it to it's full potential LEGALLY and electronically you're basically tied to a used, NICHE market.

quality - sure thats fine and dandy but im sorry, every gun if properly maintained will be reliable.

efficiency? I'm sorry, i couldn't shoot a mag in a tournament, especially in 7man... and please, don't give me a "make the shots count" speech.

why can't people admit trying to "ride out" the smart parts thing was a mistake? fact of the matter is, while people don't want to admit it - tourney ball right now is driving the majority of the paintball business. everything else is more niche than anything. and that's fine, if that's what you want to be but that's all they will EVER be unless something new comes out that's - smaller, sexier, efficient and capable of keeping up with today's NPPL or PSP formats.


i could care less either way what happens at this point. one of the first markers i ever bought myself was a minimag but at this point i would never own another one. there's markers out there that are better in every which way - for CHEAPER.

[Russ]

"mags are dead" v.456

[RogueFactor]

how about redesigning the valve completely? sure, sticking to your guns of a design that's going on 10-15 years old is nice and all but i'm sorry you gain new customers by being innovative.

Call CCI and let them know they need to redesign the Phantom! Or PPS and let them know the Blazer needs redesign too! Oh wait.....K2 needs a call, they gotta redesign the cocker..........or NOT.

Only AGD does, right?

the mag valve recharges the fastest - so what? how is that practical with the current "vision" of AGD? mechanically, you can't use it to it's full potential LEGALLY and electronically you're basically tied to a used, NICHE market.

You sure can...LEGALLY. Two leagues allow them. SPPL and CFOA. Its nice when time catches up isnt it And since ramping aint allowed in the NPPL, an E-mag is just as good as any other spooler.

[rkjunior303]

Originally Posted by rkjunior303
how about redesigning the valve completely? sure, sticking to your guns of a design that's going on 10-15 years old is nice and all but i'm sorry you gain new customers by being innovative.

Call CCI and let them know they need to redesign the Phantom! Or PPS and let them know the Blazer needs redesign too! Oh wait.....K2 needs a call, they gotta redesign the cocker..........or NOT.

Last I checked anything by CCI and Palmer's aren't exactly mainstream... and LOL at cockers, yeah - they're popularity is OFF the charts . in fact, the popularity is so high right now they've resorted to turning the cocker into a generic "throwaway" next to the Spyders, Triads, and Talon's at Wal-Mart..

You sure can...LEGALLY. Two leagues allow them. SPPL and CFOA. Its nice when time catches up isnt it And since ramping aint allowed in the NPPL, an E-mag is just as good as any other spooler.

that's fine. but honestly, used e-mag sales isn't exactly helping AGD - is it?

[RogueFactor]

efficiency? I'm sorry, i couldn't shoot a mag in a tournament, especially in 7man... and please, don't give me a "make the shots count" speech.

Oh NO! A marker not made for a tournament! Whats the world coming to!?!

why can't people admit trying to "ride out" the smart parts thing was a mistake?

Calling AKA? Calling AKA? AKA, do you have an answer for this man? Darn, nobody is answering.

while people don't want to admit it - tourney ball right now is driving the majority of the paintball business.

Right, driving it right into the ground. Have you wondered why sales are down 30% industry-wide? Wonder why companies are selling, merging, or going out of business altogether?

Your statement couldnt be further from the truth. Are you just making this up as you go?

everything else is more niche than anything. and that's fine, if that's what you want to be but that's all they will EVER be unless something new comes out that's - smaller, sexier, efficient and capable of keeping up with today's NPPL or PSP formats.

Show us how its done. You seem to have all the right answers. Get 'er done by now why dont ya.

[BigEvil]

Last I checked anything by CCI and Palmer's aren't exactly mainstream... and LOL at cockers, yeah - they're popularity is OFF the charts



that's fine. but honestly, used e-mag sales isn't exactly helping AGD - is it?

Why does AGD need to be 'mainstream'? While we can all second guess thier past business practices, what is wrong with catering to a small to medium dedicated niche market? I think the point was that small companies like CCI and Palmers are successful, realatively speaking.

[RogueFactor]

Last I checked anything by CCI and Palmer's aren't exactly mainstream... and LOL at cockers, yeah - they're popularity is OFF the charts . in fact, the popularity is so high right now they've resorted to turning the cocker into a generic "throwaway" next to the Spyders, Triads, and Talon's at Wal-Mart..

You forgot one ...

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/prod...duct_id=4328440

[rkjunior303]

if they wanna be a smaller company than now caters to a smaller niche, that's great. more power to them.. but to try and say they need to come back and return to it's old glory -- it'll never happen without major product line changes.

AKA? Look where that got them. Basically selling regs and other aftermarket parts. And don't get me wrong - I *LOVE* AKA.

Show us how its done. You seem to have all the right answers. Get 'er done by now why dont ya.

i guess i would probably start by taking an existing product, say a body or a frame, making small modifications to it with some minor milling, and calling it my new, exciting product line.

*edit* as for declining product sales, i wouldn't be surprised how much of an impact the used BST market is on forums like this, PBN, etc. Between that, in addition to saturation, I bet it has more of an impact than people think - especially with the statistics that people always seem to spout of as paintball being one of the fastest growing sports in america. with growth like that, why the drop off in sales?

[olinar]

i read about halfway through the thread and gave up because it was all the same posting. heres what i think. if automags are so inefficient and primitive, why not buy something else. trust me, no one will miss you. that just means more mags for everyone here.

[rkjunior303]

Karta, Dallara, Exile, Pariah....done. K, next...

Karta? Not AGDs
Dallara? Not AGDs
Exile and Pariah? Definitely not AGDs.. Well, actually, they were, until you milled an ounce off of them.

How are any of those going to help AGD? Unless you're talking about the dealer cost they were purchased for..

[RogueFactor]

if they wanna be a smaller company than now caters to a smaller niche, that's great. more power to them.. but to try and say they need to come back and return to it's old glory -- it'll never happen without major product line changes.

I guess thats where i understand they arent trying to come back to their 'old glory;. Where did you get the idea that AGD wanted to do that?

But major product line changes?....You mean like

A new valve---like the RT/X Valve? Or the ULE body? Or the ULE Trigger Kit? Or the Level 10? Or the Y-Grip? Or the Intelliframe? Or the X-Mag? Or the Tac-One? Or the........dont tell me, it needs a newly redesigned valve---THATS THE ANSWER!(Easy to say since its the only thing left....where did you ever think of that!)

i guess i would probably start by taking an existing product, say a body or a frame, making small modifications to it with some minor milling, and calling it my new, exciting product line.

How about a trigger? Or maybe 2? A feedneck? Detent? A few rails? A foregrip? A marker or two using these parts?

Itd be nice to have another mag maker though. When you gonna start?