Is this crazy?

[LinearGoose]

^^^^ To respond to your post I kind of like being the only Mag user and really dont care if no one uses them including Mr. Joe Noob. Im not saying there the ultimate marker and everyone should use it but for example I knew about mags for about 8 or so years but never really thought about purchasing one till last year. Thought Ill give it a try and now I dont regret it at all and love my classic. I guess what im saying is people shoot what they want to shoot and if all the Mr. Noobs decided that they want a mag then they will buy one. Also about parts being avaliable from the manufacture I guess Mr. Noob wouldnt want an Ion either because all there cool bodies are made by different manufacturers not by SP.

[RogueFactor]

And these all came Stock from AGD? And they are still in production from AGD? So AGD is making the money off their production, not just the sale of slug bodies?

Yes, Slugs are in production. You want one?

Kartas were available from AGD. You guys didnt buy enough of them to keep them in stock.

Which of those parts would you like from AGD. You know, direct? I will get it worked out so that you can buy them direct from AGD. It will cost you more though. Thats the nature of buying direct.

Great, And these also are widely available? Cheap for Joe Noob, the guy thats going to be playing for the next decade and will be the future customer for AGD? I want my Pro Classic to come with one so I don't have to mess with the crappy feed elbows. Luke makes the classic feeds into verts and adds a clamping feed neck, he has the right idea and is making the money that AGD should be. While you were preaching, I assume that the stock ULE bodies were beginning to be factory back fitted with them???

Yep, sure are. They are available. Now you are throwing in cheap. Didnt you read the first post? Prices went up, not down. You wont find the cheapest price direct from the manufacturer, doesnt work that way. From any manufacturer. Thats life.

And now you want AGD to go back? And make Stainless Steel bodies? Man, you all cant make up your mind. First you want new, then you want old. You know, since ULE bodies dont use elbows

I may be wrong here but, I thought that that only applied if the gun was run by electronics. i.e. markers that don't use hammers to open the valve. If the patent includes the actuation of the sear by a noid, then I rescind this segment of my previous post. SP=Devil!

It includes anything that uses electricity to fire a paintball marker.

Yeah, "were cut." Still in FACTORY PRODUCTION?

Right, cut from FACTORY parts IN PRODUCTION.

My question was (Next time read it and if you post, try to include an answer) was why doesn't AGD look at what we are doing and offer it from the factory, You answered with non factory and out of production items

Wrong. I answered with parts that ultimately came from AGD. Supporting AGD. There arent any parts that HAVE to start from AGD FACTORY parts.

See above, answer the questions. I am waiting for a reply that might offer Joe Noob some hope that he won't have to settle for an Ion because AGD is going to make these product options (like other manufactures) STANDARD and cheap enough for his parents to make his Christmas dreams come true.

Tell Joe Noob that when there is enough demand, thats exactly what will happen. Until then, tell Joe Noob if he wants a mag, he will have to buy those same parts cheaper from an AGD dealer that cuts them from AGD parts

And by the way, by inaccurately dissecting my previous post, your last paragraph was backwards and useless. Nice try though.

I think you are mistaken. You have it backwards. What you want is available. They are cut from AGD parts, and are to AGD specs. And are as cheap as they will get, considering this post started originally with prices went UP, not DOWN. This fulfills all your requirements.

Nice try though.

[BigEvil]

And how about something legitimately new that came out after 2003, besides the Tac-One. And to be honest, that doesn't even really count because it's just a new body..

no matter how you dress up the package, it's just the same old over and over.

Bro.. that is true of 99% of EVERY new gun out there. "Just the same over and over"

[WenULiVeUdiE]

Explain this statement, are you saying that a Mag cannot get 1200 shots from a 88/4500? My X-Valved mag w/LX, can shoot around 700 on my 45/4500, and I think that is equal to most "New" spoolers.

No, I am saying when I shot an RT Mag I got 1200 off a full 88/4500...which is horrendous.

Well tuned cockers used to get near 2000 for a 88/4500, so how does any gun getting lower than that getting more efficent? The original Shocker was the first air hog I can think of, and it has only gotten marginally better since.Not sure how new angels are doing for efficency though. AKA was the best electro for efficency, but SP royalty costs killed that.

Egos are near AKA.
MacDev is at AKA.
Timmies- Still quite good. Not AKA, but still quite good.
DM/PMs are getting up there.
Shockers- Stock, horrid. Spend $75 and you boost it quite a bit.

Essentially all new modern guns get better than the original Shoebox Shockers. It used to be a selling point because all guns had greatly varying shot statistics. But now they are pretty much even....

Why does AGD need to "get back in the game"? A Mag isnt going to be a Nppl/PSP contender any more, so why spend all that money to sell a FEW guns. It just doesnt make good business sense.

They don't need to. It just seemed like that's what the tone of the discussion was...

[nathanjones008]

this is what i see.

This is what i am looking at. I hear alot about when the demand goes up again they (agd) will lower the prices? How will the demand go up? How about a little advertising? A good place to start is the apg magazine! Just do it once a year! It will cost alot of money but it is a good risk to take. I think its good to show the world, despite everything AGD is till alive and kicking! How can they make the prices cheaper? I do not know?But the way they are doing it isnt working. It will take some deep thought and ( money)planning.The company just cant wish for the demand to go up , you gotta be a go getter, make it happend. and just ANother way is to rise the demand. A good way is to get rid of the powerfeed bodies or sluggs or whatever they are called and have the ule bodies stock with the all the guns! The days of twist lock are over! ( they are not being made as far as i know). You may say then just get another gun. I have i just bought one. And i still have two mags. 5 years down the road i still would like to (easily) find a parts kit or even buy a new mag without paying a arm and a leg. I strongly believe that eveyone on this forum would like to see agd come out with something new, deep down inside. The way a compay thrives is listening to the customers, I imagine all of us in forum and others are customers or potenial customers. There has been alot said over the years about some great ideas from paintballers from inventions or ideas and lately(2-3) years nothing has happended.( i mean agd alone not rouge or tuna they have done a good job). As much as i do not like smart parts, it seemed that they listen to their customers, people wanted a good tourney gun at a fair price, so they relased the ion. It isnt the best gun, but it is a good gun thousands have bought it, it helped the growth of the sport. The demand was a good gun at a fair price and the company gave it to the people. there has been much discussion the past day about this and everyone has given some great ideas, it has opened my mind a bit. Thanks everyone you guys are awsome.!

Small and simle changes will make a world of a difference. One change at a time.

[Lohman446]

In order for things to change TK has to want them to change - enough to invest enough money and effort to affect a change. If he does not want to, who can blame him. PPS / CCM have survived as niche companies in paintball.

[zaqwert6]

Guess your post got caught up in the arguing.

Pretty much. Despite that , Rogue is going to say what ever he wants as truth , even when he's wrong . He just re-spins his previous statements.

I'll give him credit for being a great recycler tho. He'd make a good environmentalist.

[rkjunior303]

In order for things to change TK has to want them to change - enough to invest enough money and effort to affect a change. If he does not want to, who can blame him. PPS / CCM have survived as niche companies in paintball.

Don't you mean, what's his name.. The guy that's MIA.. Zupe? LOL.

[nathanjones008]

Hire rouge to take toms spot! He has innovation!

[Lohman446]

Don't you mean, what's his name.. The guy that's MIA.. Zupe? LOL.

I don't even know who's in charge anymore - I still am of the beleif TK holds all the strings - ownership of the company, patents, etc. I think Zupe simply owns the inventory.... could be wrong, not my business really.

[Lohman446]

Hire rouge to take toms spot! He has innovation!

His definition of "new" sucks.

[zaqwert6]

Here's the bottom line to everyone else.

This thread has been done to death. I'll sum it up right here . . .

There are people who would like to see some real progress and advancement from AGD and thier product line , some change that might move it closer to the main stream , keep it affordable to those who have been loyal the brand and those looking to 'give it a try' AND just maybe a little bit . . . be able to gain some pride of ownership from our peers at the field. I think most of us would agree to that statement.

Everytime the subject comes up in one way or another all 'we' get from AGD and the 1 or 2 active AGD dealers left in business is little more than the trashing of everyone else products followed by speeches about how the AGD line is good enough and 'we' should all be happy with that.

'We' ask for something new and we got told that there is nothing new anywhere else so why should we get it here.

If were not happy with something currently AGD , the answer is everyone elses version of that sucks too so we should again we should be happy with that.

'We' ask for something new and right after the speech about how every other product is just re-milled last years product , then are told to look at all AGDs 'new' re-milled last year product . . . only problem there is our new re-milled stuff is based on 5 to 10 year old designs at best, unless of course you account for the invention of aluminum.

Then the whole thing drops into an arguement over little more than sentence structure and "literal" interpretation when everyone involved knows what everyone else was really trying to say.

Bottom line is this as I see it , I could be wrong.

We who are AGD fans want to be proud of that , we want that to be acknowledged by the rest of the paintball world. We want to get excited about what AGD is doing for us , them and the future , we want to be able continue to buy and use thier product and we want to see the company prosper and grow. We all have ideas of what would make that happen, again we could be wrong at times but you never know.

But . . . what we all know is that doing nothing , limiting supply , raising prices (when they should be going down) and depending on like the one or two dealers left in the business to re-invent the same minimal product line over and over again is NOT the answer. Not to mention I shouldn't have to buy most of those parts in the aftermarket when the Manufacturer is suppling the aftermarket with the raw stock parts in the first place. All that product could and 'should' be offered by the manufacturer as stock product. I'm sure AGD could add a few cuts to a ULE body , another trigger style , screw on a nice feedneck , etc. It may not be "New" persay but at least it would be something until "New" happens. Thro us a bone.

If doing nothing was working and if the aftermarkets minimal attempt at a fix was enough , this discussion would happen far less and AGD , it's product line and it's dealer network would be blossoming. But it's not and that's where we are now and . . . I think 'we' would appreciate not getting attacked and our concerns mearly dismissed because of it. At least pretend to acknowledge our concerns . . . like everyone else . . . at least that might make us happy . . . for a little while.

Have a good one.

[rkjunior303]

+1 for zaqwert6

[tech-chan]

+1 for zaqwert6

AGREED! Also, I have a challenge for you guys. You want something NEW? Design it yourself on CAD, notepad, Google sketchup or anything that involves the computer. Stick it up here in our "blue" forum and show your design off. Im doing it, and I expect you weanies that cry because we don't have anything new here too do it too. Get of your buts and quit typing long enough to work together to create something new and then get AGD to make it!

[Lohman446]

AGREED! Also, I have a challenge for you guys. You want something NEW? Design it yourself on CAD, notepad, Google sketchup or anything that involves the computer. Stick it up here in our "blue" forum and show your design off. Im doing it, and I expect you weanies that cry because we don't have anything new here too do it too. Get of your buts and quit typing long enough to work together to create something new and then get AGD to make it!

Neh, it was easier to go out and buy something else that fit what I wanted . And besides, as Rogue has pointed out TK has basically stated they are not going to make what I want, even if I handed them a fully functional prototype.